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The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

theguardian.com

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Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#61

Post by slekker »

incomingpain wrote: post #39

I've heard this a few times before. Admittedly I'm not that familiar with Denmark. Lets check out the livability. GDP is okish; has signs of foreign influence or some sort of financial crisis. 2.5% unemployment is fantastic. 75% participation and steadily climbing, elderly going back to work? https://www.populationpyramid.net/denmark/2020/ Wow, only 5 million people? Toronto has more people. Though yes elderly going…

> 55% personal income tax rate? Yikes! 25% sales tax, 22% corporate tax. Those are some insane taxes.

They do have a tax reduction scheme, but you need an obscene salary for DK standards: https://www.bdo.dk/en-gb/insights/tax-and-vat/27-percent-tax...

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#62

Post by coreyh14444 »

fvdessen wrote: post #51
coreyh14444 wrote: post #2

American in Denmark here: Yes, this is exactly right. The article covers a lot of topics but does a good job for the most part. The only thing not mentioned from HN point of view is that for tech workers, salaries are MUCH lower than in the US. My family's quality of life quotient though is very high. My kids (12, 14) have basically free reign of the city and we don't worry about them at all.

There's a general obsession on GDP and salary numbers that is a bit myopic. Let's say in country A people drop their kids by car at school, while country B the kids go by themselves at school by foot. All other things being equal, the higher expenses on gas and cars will show up as higher GDP for country A, which will in turn be considered 'wealthier'. But is it really ? Likewise for salaries, the higher number hides…

Oh totally. Coming from the States, where our costs included two cars, healthcare out of pocket expenses, daycare, etc and coming to DK where, yes, taxes are high, but we have zero cars, zero healthcare costs, etc.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#63

Post by mensetmanusman »

snowpid wrote: post #47
mensetmanusman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you are arrested for home schooling. Different cultures have their flaws.

Home schooling is linked to religious extremism

If one was affected by the 80’s news cycle, it will seem that way in one’s head.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#64

Post by slekker »

vertis wrote: post #55
incomingpain wrote: post #39

I've heard this a few times before. Admittedly I'm not that familiar with Denmark. Lets check out the livability. GDP is okish; has signs of foreign influence or some sort of financial crisis. 2.5% unemployment is fantastic. 75% participation and steadily climbing, elderly going back to work? https://www.populationpyramid.net/denmark/2020/ Wow, only 5 million people? Toronto has more people. Though yes elderly going…

Most of Europe has similar taxation. They get a lot for their money though. Public transport and health. I would live in Denmark in a heartbeat, have visited so many times as a digital nomad. But I'd have to go work for a tech company there or convince them that whatever startup I want to have a go at next is enough to be accepted by the startup visa (complicated). If anyone from Denmark or Sweden (which I love as we…

> Most of Europe has similar taxation.

Countries like Czechia or France have lower income tax (5%-10% less)

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#65

Post by kbolino »

bilbo0s wrote: post #37
AlexandrB wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US leaving your baby unsupervised is likely to result in someone calling CPS and a bunch of trouble for you. So while the chance of having your child kidnapped is vanishingly small, there are enough busybodies who believe the chance is high to result in the same net effect: you can't leave your baby unattended.

That's just another dimension of the problem. But let's be honest here, there are a lot of child snatches in the US. About 150 to 160 new reports yearly per 100000 kids. By comparison, Denmark annually reports between 50 to 75 new missing child cases per 100000 children. (And even that obscures the starkness of the difference. Because in Denmark, they count children abducted to another country by a parent as a missin…

Aren't many cases of missing children in the US also abductions by a parent?

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#66

Post by mensetmanusman »

spython wrote: post #32
mensetmanusman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you are arrested for home schooling. Different cultures have their flaws.

Why would that be considered a flaw? The rationale behind it is the same as behind the inability to name your child XAe or any random assortment of letters – to not make the future difficult for your child, even if you as a parent might want it. It is also one of the last tools that prevents parallel societies from forming. Not that German schools are ideal - they are a bit stuck in the past - but the common experien…

Diversity of thought helps solve problems. It’s useful for the state to allow a small % of experimentation to reduce risk.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#67

Post by intunderflow »

shiftright wrote: post #49
intunderflow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Danish salaries, especially at US companies, aren't even that low, to take an example: https://levels.fyi/companies/uber/salaries/software-engineer...

That's more than double what the average company pays a senior dev in Denmark.

That's why loads of top talent end up disappearing into the realms of Google, Uber, Microsoft or Databricks Denmark. Whether this is a good thing (they get paid well but the US gets the outputs of their labour) is another matter.

It is possible though to get paid a more reasonable rate in DK (which imo is good) and living in Denmark does not guarantee a huge pay cut / local companies don't suppress tech salaries into oblivion, even if the only saving grace is foreign offices.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#68

Post by bilbo0s »

admissionsguy wrote: post #42
trelane wrote: post #26

This sounds a lot like small midwestern towns, at least a few decades ago.

Has it changed? My medium term goal is to move to a small town in a state like Nebraska. In my limited experience, I found the region as cozy as my current place in the far north of Sweden but without the humongous government.

Has it changed?

Yes.

I'd say it's like years being designated BC and AD.

Small town midwest is now Before Opiods and After Opiods. Choose your future small town carefully, and don't be bothered by how many feelings you hurt. It's about what you want for you and your family. Not about validating a narrative. You really do want to stay away from certain areas. At least, that's how it is here in Wisconsin.

Anecdata: One day my sister was taking my niece to school and my niece said from her car seat, "Look Mom! A dead body." My sister looked over and sure enough, cops and ambulance, and they were just covering the deceased. OD.

Point of this story is not really that there was an OD in small town Wisconsin. Small town Wisconsin is where you'd expect OD's to happen nowadays. The point is my niece was so familiar with this kind of thing that she could spot a dead body at 4 or 5 years old.

Not good man.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#69

Post by slekker »

Youden wrote: post #59
throwaway22032 wrote: post #9

The common factor in all high trust societies seems to be that they are culturally homogenous.

I disagree. Switzerland is another example of a high-trust society yet roughly a quarter of its residents are foreign. A majority of those foreigners are from the EU/EFTA but if you think that means they're culturally homogenous, I challenge you to feed a German pizza to an Italian or give someone from Suisse romande a Gipfeli and tell them it's a croissant. I'm not accusing you of this in particular but a common pat…

Is there more homogeneity in their values instead of saying culture?

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#70

Post by shiftright »

tossandthrow wrote: post #58
shiftright wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more than double what the average company pays a senior dev in Denmark.

The big difference is the stock component, which Danish companies usually does not offer. But DKK 1.000.000 a year is not far off senior roles. (However, a lot of roles are also much lower).

Not too far of but 20% is still significant, and I think even so it would be mostly the top you can get from local companies. Even the Novo/Lego type companies are pretty stingy on IC compensation. There's limited upside, and startups are very far away IMO.

You get some upside wrt work/life balance. But very limited flexibility in other ways. And culture-wise it's another can of worms.

Generally speaking it's better to work for foreign companies here.

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