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Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

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Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that I like about the Hobbit 77 film is that it realizes the material is a child's fantasy book. It's a breath of fresh air in a our current era -- where VCs seem to understand that any attempt to profit off of the American taxpayer's defense spending requires some Tolkien reference in the company name. The existence of the '77 animated adaptation is our last reminder that the Generals green-lighting all th…

That Thiel named his company Palantir has always struck me oddly. In the books, the palantir were "seeing stones" gifted to men by the elves, and could be used to see events remotely, and to communicate mind-to-mind by users. But after Sauron acquired one, using them became perilous as the Dark Lord could limit what users saw, effectively controlling their information flow, even if he could not overwhelm or twist the…

It's not even the specific name, but simply using any name from Tolkien.

Tolkien didn't like the consequences of technological progress. While engineers were not inherently evil in his works, they were at a high risk of becoming evil, or at least instruments of evil. Think of characters like Sauron and Saruman, or Fëanor and Celebrimbor. If you give a Tolkienian name to your tech company, you are implying that you are one of those guys.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#62
post #33

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

Yes. The breakthrough was "Batman", 1989, which redefined the fantasy/superhero genre. Before that, fantasy/superhero stuff was silly, unrealistic, or both. "Batman" changed that. Of course, where that got us was franchises with endless sequels.

Richard Donner‘s Superman, the first movie from 78, was a good serious movie. It later got more comical with Richard Pryor in Superman III

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#63

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, I don't remember comic books being "nerd" material before the 2000s (like say computers or computer programming). They were "children's" material, and for whatever reason the market moved toward older teens and adults. The main comics weren't written/illustrated to be "campy, perfunctory, self-mockin…

The simpsons had “comic book guy” as their primary adult nerd character since ‘91

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#64
post #57

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

It's so easy to imagine Lennon doing a Gollum that's funny for five seconds and then just incredibly irritating.

> Gollum that's funny for five seconds and then just incredibly irritating.

This is the canonical Gollum of the original text. Only half-kidding.

Now that I think about it, the Beatles probably could have made all those songs and rhymes from the source material really sing.

Only a matter of time before someone uses voice cloning and video generation AI models to make this, and when they do, I’ll probably watch it, or at least watch a YouTube personality do a deep dive on it.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#65
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but it's wrong that he was able to stop it. We lost what could have been an interesting piece of art. We should have more adaptations in the world not fewer.

It's his own creation. He had every right to stop it. I don't see how this is wrong at all.

Why should an author have the right to prevent adaptations?

If Tolkien had been alive he probably would have put an end to Jackson's efforts, too.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#66
post #32

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

I really think you are right, but there's a contrarian part of me now imagining something that is almost identical with that Ballad of Bilbo Baggins video that was allegedly forced on Leonard Nimoy by terrible TV producers, magically turned good through the Beatles touch. Who knows, as unlikely as it certainly is, perhaps knowledge of the Nimoy TV sequence was what made Tolkien protect The Beatles from embarrassing t…

It wasn't forced, he did it as a favor to Charles Randolph Grean, who had produced his record albums and was responsible for that skit on the "Malibu U" variety show.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Randolph_Grean

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#67

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

They wanted Kubrick to direct, so it could have been a serious effort (Kubrick declined).

knowing what i know about how the beatles behave and how kubrick directs... there would've been a monumental clash of personalities behind the scenes

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#68
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so easy to imagine Lennon doing a Gollum that's funny for five seconds and then just incredibly irritating.

> Gollum that's funny for five seconds and then just incredibly irritating. This is the canonical Gollum of the original text. Only half-kidding. Now that I think about it, the Beatles probably could have made all those songs and rhymes from the source material really sing. Only a matter of time before someone uses voice cloning and video generation AI models to make this, and when they do, I’ll probably watch it, or…

If I’ve learned anything from here it’s that “AI” getting to this point is hardly a given within any relevant time frame. Of course, luckily we are surrounded by experts who I am sure will gladly point out why I’m wrong.

It is a fun kool aid to drink though. Super AI enabling us to do things like “computer compose the best symphony for me that has ever been made in the style of the Beatles and successfully trade on the stock market to make me rich .”

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#69
post #49

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

> Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s And I present The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins. https://youtu.be/BC35cQKHwzg?si=KWIbiEpEVb36tqh1

It's willy wonka meets LOTR.

Thanks, I hate it.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#70

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, I don't remember comic books being "nerd" material before the 2000s (like say computers or computer programming). They were "children's" material, and for whatever reason the market moved toward older teens and adults. The main comics weren't written/illustrated to be "campy, perfunctory, self-mockin…

> I don't remember comic books being "nerd" material before the 2000s (like say computers or computer programming)

I'm not sure how comic books got into this. But comics were definitely for nerds: basically, socially-inept people who did things like reading instead of going out to parties. Computers were not central to the definition of nerd.

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