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Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

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Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#51

Post by GolfPopper »

api wrote: post #31
Drunk_Engineer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wanted Kubrick to direct, so it could have been a serious effort (Kubrick declined).

I’m not 100% sure Tolkien is right for Kubrick. Maybe but I’d be concerned that he’d make it a little too ponderous and symbolic. He’d nail the spooky dark aura around the ring though. But with the Beatles? Nah no way. Peter Jackson’s adaptation was so authentic it looked at places just like my mental imagery looked as I was reading the book. That’s a tough thing to pull off in and of itself. Spielberg would have mad…

Um, Ridley Scott directed Legend which came out in 1985. While it wasn't a critical or commercial success, I thought and still think it is an amazing film, and one of the best pieces of cinematic "high fantasy" out there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_(1985_film)

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#52

Post by GolfPopper »

aiforecastthway wrote: post #12
KineticLensman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 1977 Hobbit film which was produced for NBC [1] was a excellent adaptation I've not seen the 1977 Hobbit film, but I note that your reference [1] prominently says: "The Tolkien scholar Douglas A. Anderson called the adaptation "execrable"; the author Baird Searles called it an "abomination" and an attempt that had "failed miserably", regretting the quality of the animation and of the soundtrack, and the omissio…

The thing that I like about the Hobbit 77 film is that it realizes the material is a child's fantasy book. It's a breath of fresh air in a our current era -- where VCs seem to understand that any attempt to profit off of the American taxpayer's defense spending requires some Tolkien reference in the company name. The existence of the '77 animated adaptation is our last reminder that the Generals green-lighting all th…

That Thiel named his company Palantir has always struck me oddly.

In the books, the palantir were "seeing stones" gifted to men by the elves, and could be used to see events remotely, and to communicate mind-to-mind by users. But after Sauron acquired one, using them became perilous as the Dark Lord could limit what users saw, effectively controlling their information flow, even if he could not overwhelm or twist them directly via the mind-to-mind contact. While Aragorn does manage to wrest one free of Sauron's control, allowing him to save the day at a key moment, overall they are a powerful tool for the forces of evil.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#53

Post by prawn »

Animats wrote: post #33
karaterobot wrote: post #9

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

Yes. The breakthrough was "Batman", 1989, which redefined the fantasy/superhero genre. Before that, fantasy/superhero stuff was silly, unrealistic, or both. "Batman" changed that. Of course, where that got us was franchises with endless sequels.

I think the sequels are easy to ignore and tolerable bycatch if it means you get strong films amongst them - Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, Logan, Infinity War (even just for a great villain), and (last but definitely not least) Into the Spider-Verse, etc. That last one is a relevant example given how many Spider-Man films there are and how few of them I've bothered watching.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#54

Post by Ar-Curunir »

GolfPopper wrote: post #52
aiforecastthway wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that I like about the Hobbit 77 film is that it realizes the material is a child's fantasy book. It's a breath of fresh air in a our current era -- where VCs seem to understand that any attempt to profit off of the American taxpayer's defense spending requires some Tolkien reference in the company name. The existence of the '77 animated adaptation is our last reminder that the Generals green-lighting all th…

That Thiel named his company Palantir has always struck me oddly. In the books, the palantir were "seeing stones" gifted to men by the elves, and could be used to see events remotely, and to communicate mind-to-mind by users. But after Sauron acquired one, using them became perilous as the Dark Lord could limit what users saw, effectively controlling their information flow, even if he could not overwhelm or twist the…

If you realize that Peter Thiel intends to use Palantir exactly for that purpose (controlling information flow, and as a surveillance system), it makes complete sense.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#55

Post by dbt00 »

GolfPopper wrote: post #52
aiforecastthway wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that I like about the Hobbit 77 film is that it realizes the material is a child's fantasy book. It's a breath of fresh air in a our current era -- where VCs seem to understand that any attempt to profit off of the American taxpayer's defense spending requires some Tolkien reference in the company name. The existence of the '77 animated adaptation is our last reminder that the Generals green-lighting all th…

That Thiel named his company Palantir has always struck me oddly. In the books, the palantir were "seeing stones" gifted to men by the elves, and could be used to see events remotely, and to communicate mind-to-mind by users. But after Sauron acquired one, using them became perilous as the Dark Lord could limit what users saw, effectively controlling their information flow, even if he could not overwhelm or twist the…

If you’re going to build a powerful tool for governments don’t you want a constant reminder of how even tools for good can be corrupted by evil?

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#56

Post by plausibility »

GolfPopper wrote: post #52
aiforecastthway wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that I like about the Hobbit 77 film is that it realizes the material is a child's fantasy book. It's a breath of fresh air in a our current era -- where VCs seem to understand that any attempt to profit off of the American taxpayer's defense spending requires some Tolkien reference in the company name. The existence of the '77 animated adaptation is our last reminder that the Generals green-lighting all th…

That Thiel named his company Palantir has always struck me oddly. In the books, the palantir were "seeing stones" gifted to men by the elves, and could be used to see events remotely, and to communicate mind-to-mind by users. But after Sauron acquired one, using them became perilous as the Dark Lord could limit what users saw, effectively controlling their information flow, even if he could not overwhelm or twist the…

I think it's just because he had no illusions as to the good and bad uses it would bring. I've used Palantir Foundry heavily at work, and it is good for remotely viewing events and communicating mind-to-mind to executives with pretty dashboards. Definitely nicer optics than their Gotham platform used by USA law enforcement since e.g. it helps Airbus identify issues on their plane fleets before they occur.

Plus from talking to the Palantir engineers, the CEO and Thiel are both weirdo nerds, so it's fitting.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#57

Post by TillE »

karaterobot wrote: post #9

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

It's so easy to imagine Lennon doing a Gollum that's funny for five seconds and then just incredibly irritating.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#58

Post by optimalsolver »

dbt00 wrote: post #55
GolfPopper wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Thiel named his company Palantir has always struck me oddly. In the books, the palantir were "seeing stones" gifted to men by the elves, and could be used to see events remotely, and to communicate mind-to-mind by users. But after Sauron acquired one, using them became perilous as the Dark Lord could limit what users saw, effectively controlling their information flow, even if he could not overwhelm or twist the…

If you’re going to build a powerful tool for governments don’t you want a constant reminder of how even tools for good can be corrupted by evil?

I put the probability of them having that mentality when choosing the name at literally zero.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#59

Post by anonymfus »

arnavpraneet wrote: post #26
tetris11 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday painted them as literal Gods, instead of just decent musicians at the right place at the right time. To this day I go out of my way to ward people away from that terrible film.

Did we watch the same movie? It was more about their cultural impact than painting them as gods

The premise of these realities being almost identical means that they had no cultural impact.

Re: Peter Jackson on how Tolkien stopped a Beatles LOTR film (2021)

#60

Post by jasonfarnon »

karaterobot wrote: post #9

> "Ultimately, they couldn't get the rights from Tolkien, because he didn't like the idea of a pop group doing his story. So it got nixed by him. They tried to do it. There's no doubt about it. I'm a Beatles fan. Tolkien was right to be skeptical, it would have been terrible. No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s, if you'd like some prece…

No doubt in my mind: campy, perfunctory, self-mocking. Please recall how "nerd" material was treated before the 2000s,

I don't remember comic books being "nerd" material before the 2000s (like say computers or computer programming). They were "children's" material, and for whatever reason the market moved toward older teens and adults. The main comics weren't written/illustrated to be "campy, perfunctory, self-mocking", though an adult may have regarded them that way. Similar story with videogames.

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