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Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

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Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#61

Post by microtonal »

asplake wrote: post #46
TwentyPosts wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Apple by now realizes that Android was a necessary defensive play by Google aimed not at them, but at Microsoft Huh? Could you elaborate on this? Maybe I am missing some historical context, but it feels like Android is very much eating into Apple's market share, not into Microsoft's. How does this reasoning work out?

Windows Phone is dead. If that was Google’s play, it was very successful.

They did not have to do much though, Microsoft killed Windows Phone all on their own. Windows Phone 7 was pretty great, but Microsoft threw all early-adopters under the bus by then releasing Windows Phone 8. None of the Windows Phone 7 devices got an upgrade to WP8 and WP8 apps would not run on WP7.

I knew a bunch of folks who were very sour after how Microsoft handled WP7 -> WP8 and moved to other platforms. And these were the people that were championing Windows Phone.

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#62

Post by knowriju »

throwaway290 wrote: post #55
knowriju wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for Apple to do this will be exactly why Microsoft is happy for OpenAI to provide the Models. If anything goes wrong it's not Apple or Microsoft's fault. It is the SaaS provider who is to blame. For apple this will mean Google's stock takes the hit while theirs remain unaffected. Unfortunately for OpenAI/MS, OpenAI is not public and so everyone is using MS as a proxy for trading on OAI. So if something goe…

I was about to say just that. And it's also why I doubt Apple would go with OAI, wouldn't want to depend on Microsoft's private money sink/flaky legal shield.

Given all the regulatory scrutiny on the Google-Apple search deal, I believe we'll get an option to choose the 'AI Backend' similar to how EU users get to choose Search Engine. In effect a lot more people are aware of Google logo than OpenAI so that's what most common people will choose, while maybe most tech-savy folks will end up choosing OpenAI. This will be Apple's way to hedge against any further regulation option and they get to market iPhone as a AI aggregator similar to the AppStore.

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#63

Post by ezst »

seydor wrote: post #59
ezst wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe Apple doesn't want to touch that mess of a copyright and IP infringing hellhole and subcontracting is the smart move?

they didnt seem afraid to touch music or movies, they have a lot of experience in that no?

Is Apple making profit out of generating and selling derivative works from music and movies without compensating the original authors? If not, I'm not sure how it relates to the current breed of generative AI.

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#64

Post by seydor »

ezst wrote: post #63
seydor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they didnt seem afraid to touch music or movies, they have a lot of experience in that no?

Is Apple making profit out of generating and selling derivative works from music and movies without compensating the original authors? If not, I'm not sure how it relates to the current breed of generative AI.

that s my point - they have the most expertise on compensating authors when/if needed

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#65

Post by Eudaimion »

I am surprised that people are surprised about this. iCloud runs mostly on GCP. All of the storage in iCloud relies on Google Cloud Storage.

PS. This is the reason why many people call Vercel, the Apple of the dev world. Vercel offers services that have great user experience, but under the hood are mostly wrapped AWS services.

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#66

Post by ezst »

throwaway290 wrote: post #57
ezst wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the appeal of an iGizmo is not sending so much data to Google. I guess Apple's Marketing is doing its thing once again...

Wireshark an igizmo and a droid and see the difference for yourself :)

It shows encrypted streams that neither you or I can decipher. By default, either will spend its day scraping your surroundings (wifi and bluetooth) and report it back home, unless you opt-out (which both allow). Both are equally evil in my book.

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#67

Post by fragmede »

ezst wrote: post #66
throwaway290 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wireshark an igizmo and a droid and see the difference for yourself :)

It shows encrypted streams that neither you or I can decipher. By default, either will spend its day scraping your surroundings (wifi and bluetooth) and report it back home, unless you opt-out (which both allow). Both are equally evil in my book.

Can’t you root both of those to setup a proxy to decrypt and see for yourself? If it’s encrypted, how can you tell that’s what it's doing to say with such certainty there?

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#68

Post by ezst »

seydor wrote: post #64
ezst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Apple making profit out of generating and selling derivative works from music and movies without compensating the original authors? If not, I'm not sure how it relates to the current breed of generative AI.

that s my point - they have the most expertise on compensating authors when/if needed

Mine being that large language and diffusion models are trained on "whatever the heck is there, available for scraping on the broad internet, indiscriminately".

I don't think Apple's money or it being in bed with the Majors solves either side of "acknowledging authorship when none is provided/known", "obtaining formal consent for commercial use" or "fairly compensating a creators base" when it is larger than all humans on earth.

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#69

Post by fauigerzigerk »

heisenzombie wrote: post #17
artninja1988 wrote: post #4

I thought they wanted to do their own thing and focused on efficient inference on device. Disappointed to hear this...

I feel like it will certainly need to be a hybrid approach for the moment. They’ll get a long way running small highly specific and tuned models locally on the neural engine for a lot of stuff. But, at some point, people are going to expect to ask questions and have something in the league of a Mistral/Claude/ChatGPT talk back and that’s just not possible with today’s hardware. Over time I expect more and more of tha…

>Over time I expect more and more of that will get moved locally

I'm not so sure whether this is the direction of travel. The economics are pretty harsh for local, general purpose AI. And battery will always be a limiting factor.

If you're sending a few hundered requests per day to a very powerful AI then sharing the cost of the inference machinery with others has overwhelming economic advantages. And it will need access to current data anyway, so it can't be completely local.

There will be tasks such as keyboard autocomplete and a lot of other specialised tasks where latency or privacy is more important than quality. So yes I do believe in hybrid. But I think the cloud will always do the heavy lifting when it comes to more general tasks.

I can imagine an alternative scenario where a lot of AI processing happens on Mac and PC and mobile devices benefit from that. But many people don't have powerful desktop devices. So I'm not sure Apple can rely on this.

Re: Apple Is in Talks to Let Google's Gemini Power iPhone Generative AI Features

#70

Post by mupuff1234 »

saberience wrote: post #27
panarky wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gemini doesn't run on GPUs, it runs on Google's custom TPU silicon. The TPU v4 was already competitive with Nvidia, and the new v5p is 2.4 times faster and more power efficient than v4.

Do you have a solid source for this claim? Everything I have read/heard tells me that companies would much, much rather have access to Nvidia chips than Googles TPUs.

Because TPUs are aimed at Google workloads so probably not as easy to work with outside of Google.
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