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Sweden Is a NATO Member

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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#61
post #22
post #2

Finally. I'm going to celebrate by opening a bottle of red wine from Ukraine, seems fitting.

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The majority of Ukrainians wanted to defend themselves against the invasion so I assume they would answer yes. Yet you act as if they were somehow forced to defend themselves by outsiders. It's bizarre. You should critically review your information diet, you sound unhinged.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#62
Yes, this is a great way to fight against Putin, but...

As a Swedish citizen, I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Iraq-like war down the line.

Sooner or later the US or NATO will be the Putin of today, and I don't look forward to that.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#63
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of Europe is in NATO. NATO nations committing troops would likely drag all of NATO into war with Russia, increasing the chance of a nuclear war. That's not something NATO wants.

1. It's really doubtful Russia will commit to nuclear war. 2. If it does, it will do that regardless of whether or not NATO enters the war or not. Russia has signalled it has no intentions of stopping its war of conquest

Taken together what you wrote here is a convenient framework for all blame of any possible nuclear exchange to be entirely disconnected from NATO.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#65
post #4

This is great news and NATO benefits hugely from this. I have to hand it to putin for bringing further solidarity across Europe and NATO.

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No? Just because Sweden is a member of NATO doesn't meant they have to just let the US do whatever they want. IF Sweden so chooses to allow US troops to be stationed there, it will be for their own benefit.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#66
post #7

Just in time for Trump to do the rug pull he agreed with Putin back in 2018, when they met in Helsinki and Trump took care to even destroy translator’s notes. If he wins the election, NATO is toast and Putin has carte blanche over East Europe.

When, not if, and that's a good thing. I don't share your alarmist view. I think the other members of NATO will just start doing their fair share, as they should.

The consequences of living in a multilateral world will be very bad for the US.

Right now, the US is the leader in a unilateral world. It is absolutely naive to think that this doesn’t come with huge advantages.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#67

Does being in NATO obligate you to respond militarily if another member is attacked (as is commonly believed)? I failed to find this clause in the text last time I looked. Edit: for everyone telling me to read article 5: I already have, hence this question. It says each member "will assist [...] by taking [...] such action as it deems necessary". That very much doesn't appear to obligate a military response, or any r…

Yes - Article 5 - the absolutely key piece of NATO.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#68
post #5
post #3

Looking at the flag colours I cannot but think that Sweden is paving the way for Ukraine's membership.

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Russia: signed the memorandum guaranteeing Ukraine's borders, sovereignty and independence.

Also Russia: "NATO pinky promised in a discussion between two people no one remembers that it wouldn't expand East, so we're invading Ukraine and threatening you with nuclear war"

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exercise in team work has not been going great so far. It doesn't look like their is a path to victory in Ukraine and Europe is hesitant to commit any troops. There are some rumblings from Macron but most of Europe would prefer to send just enough weapons so Putin can't move forward and Ukraine can't push them out.

Sweden and Finland are in NATO. Leverage from turkey and Hungary is decreasing, if you haven't seen it. Democracy may be slow, but it's still the best system. Additionally, now support for Ukraine can increase and it should go faster. God, I really hope it goes a lot faster...

Because NATO (for most key decisions) works by full consensus, adding new members (a process which involved Turkey and Hungary using their leverage for concessions, especially Turkey) does not substantially reduce the leverage of existing members (this is also why Russia's bid to move to the front of the line and be admitted ahead of other Easter European applicants, without a readiness process--the real root, not the fact of expansion into Eastern Europe, of Putin's resentment against NATO--was rejected.)

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#70
post #3

Looking at the flag colours I cannot but think that Sweden is paving the way for Ukraine's membership.

I know Ukraine will not and cannot do this, but writing off it's East and Crimea would enable NATO membership and EU ascension.

All indications suggest that Russia also wants Odessa and the rest of the black sea coastline, which would probably never be acceptable even with NATO membership.
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