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Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

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Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#61
post #59
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have to still pay attention to the road and drive the car, since the car is still unable to drive itself reliably without a human, which that was supposedly the Level 5 Full Self Driving (FSD) promise of 2020 with the 1 Million robo-taxis still missing. The product has been 'Fools Self Driving' demoware for years.

You missed the joke.

?

My comment already agreed with it, and it plays right in to the entire point of you having to still pay attention and drive the car yourself. Hence why I said it is 'Fools Self Driving'

Is this you as well? [0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32559771

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#62
post #24

It's interesting to see to what extent matrix multiplication and backpropagation are dominating the AI space these days. I wouldn't be surprised if other approaches like genetic programming will make a comeback one day. If there are any papers out there arguing for/against neural networks to stay in the king's seat forever, I would love to see them.

> I wouldn't be surprised if other approaches like genetic programming will make a comeback one day. Why would they? If you assume that your objective is kinda smooth genetic algorithms and related are guaranteed to suck. And most "real" world things of interest can be assumed to be pretty smooth

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk is absolutely the reason I would never consider buying another Tesla, having just sold mine. Dude just straight up lies. He may not realize he's lying, but he lies constantly. Edit, because I'm getting downvoted. Here's some examples: self driving, battery swaps, robotic snake chargers, cybertruck windows, Bitcoin won't be converted to fiat, starlink speeds will improve, he will sell his home, first mars mission…

I can understand some of these 'lies' but most of them are not really lies. I can understand being angry about self driving, most of the rest of it is pretty absurd. Most of these are either things that are simple changes in strategy, mostly good choice regards to internal investment and roadmap. Others are research projects that were never promised to be products. I really don't understand how anybody can be angry a…

> Did you personally sign a contract with Tesla for a battery swap station or something?

I've found that a surprisingly large number of people are really committed to the idea that battery swapping is the only way that EVs could work. These are personally offended that Tesla abandoned it.

But doing battery swapping well is much more capital intensive than their supercharger strategy was. They could never have afforded it on their own anyway.

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#64
post #9

Cool. Can anyone chime in on how this compares to other ML SoC/ASICs? I know many places are going hard on general purpose GPUs, but I’d imagine ASIC based supercomputers (like Google TPU) are the way to go forward.

This is a crazy oversimplification, but let me take a shot. The difference to others is easily a large "novel size" discussion.

Most training SoCs are focused on building something the size of an NVIDIA GPU, but designed for ML versus general purpose GPU HPC compute (FP64) plus ML. Often those accelerators today have a few types of models they are optimized for. NVIDIA is the baseline and so the competitors are looking for areas where they can get a large boost at a lower cost with something about the size of a A100/H100.

Cerebras is perhaps the biggest exception with its WSE-2, a wafer size chip. Having the wafer size chip means that Cerebras does not need to go into higher-latency and higher-power off-package interconnect as frequently because its chip is 50x larger. In turn, Cerebras drives performance and cost savings by not needing NVLink4 NVSwitches / InfiniBand.

Tesla's Dojo Tile is 25 chips roughly equivalent in size to a NVIDIA GPU in a single package with die-to-die communication facilitated by the base tile and then built for scale up units. Tesla also has focused on the interconnect and pipeline feeding the D1s and Tiles.

Ultimately, I think that it takes something beyond a "solution X saves 30% over NVIDIA in these workloads in performance/ $" to survive. NVIDIA has a massive software ecosystem and can handle more types of tasks versus some of the other AI accelerators. That goes beyond just the training and also to other parts of the data prep and movement pipeline. NVIDIA extracts high margins from this work so that is why some effectively are competing with "it costs less and on some problems can be faster" architectures but what Tesla, Cerebras, Google, and a few others have another level of differentiation.

Nothing is perfect, nor was that explanation, but just a high-level view of why the technology featured is impactful.

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#65
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the case, they'd have already launched a 'demo' version with very low usage limits. Users can start building/porting their models, and then run them in a few months when the next batch of chips arrives.

Sometimes R&D just takes time.

The idea of having it publicly accessible has been public for 3 years. Maybe internally for more than that.

Yet, building a basic colab-like interface, using opensource tools, shouldn't take more than a few people a few months.

Obviously, they might not want to launch that before their hardware is ready, but their hardware has been in production for over a year now.

Clearly something hasn't gone to plan.

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#66
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear Moon was supposed to be 2022. But he was supposed to land a manned dragon capsule on Mars in 2020 and before that 2018, plus passenger rocket flights from New York to Shanghai for between the price of a coach and business class ticket by 2028 (first made the claim in 2018, later doubled down on the 2028 date around 2020). https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/17/14652026/spacex-red-drago... Starlink satellites were su…

>California gave them almost a billion for "delivering" them. Source?

The amount earned is unclear, but California was giving more credits to vehicles based upon battery swap capability: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/03/tesla-battery-swap...

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#67
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk is absolutely the reason I would never consider buying another Tesla, having just sold mine. Dude just straight up lies. He may not realize he's lying, but he lies constantly. Edit, because I'm getting downvoted. Here's some examples: self driving, battery swaps, robotic snake chargers, cybertruck windows, Bitcoin won't be converted to fiat, starlink speeds will improve, he will sell his home, first mars mission…

Curious... did you sell your Tesla because he lies? or for other issues? What replacement car/company did you decide to go with? Volkswagen?

That's the tough thing. Tesla still has the early mover advantage in the EV space and despite all the dumb stuff, most other EVs can't yet compete in the basic driving experience for the price (assuming no FSD).

I just want a Toyota Corolla or Camry-style car, for a decent price, that is electric. The i3 was kinda close to what I wanted in spirit, but they had to make it look all "tech" and "future-y".

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#68
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“He may not realize he's lying, but he lies constantly.” You have to know what your saying is untrue for something to be a lie. Otherwise it is simply called being wrong.

When you keep being wrong in the same way for 9 years straight then it graduates from "wrong" to "lie": https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-promises-full-self-driving-ne...

Agreed. And I own a Tesla and am in the “FSD” beta. It’s nowhere near ready. There is absolutely no way in hell it was even a thing when he first started promising it given the current state.

And there’s incredibly small chances this system will actually work given the limited sensor set in the car, and especially with the removal of the radar (which is not them “cleaning up the data”, it is 100% entirely due to supply chain issues).

It’s a great car, and I applaud them for making various major advances in the automotive space including the push for EVs and OTA updates. But FSD is a pipe dream and won’t be anywhere near full self driving in the next decade. And other manufacturers are quickly catching up to the current public feature set.

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#69
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that is irrelevant to Musk calling the man a “pedophile” with zero evidence.

Pedophile was not the exact insult used why do you have it in quotes as if it were spoken verbatim?

No post body was provided.

Re: Tesla Dojo Custom AI Supercomputer at HC34

#70
post #9

Cool. Can anyone chime in on how this compares to other ML SoC/ASICs? I know many places are going hard on general purpose GPUs, but I’d imagine ASIC based supercomputers (like Google TPU) are the way to go forward.

They'll be at a process disadvantage. D1 is allegedly TSMC 7nm, as per last year's information ( https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tesla-d1-ai-chip ). An ASIC can strip out features they don't need and save some space. But a good chunk of modern GPUs are memory-controllers, registers, and SIMD-cores. And modern GPUs (both AMD's MI250x and NVidia's A100) have 16-bit matrix multiplication units (aka: Tensor cores). Onc…

Nvidia’s stuff is good but it’s pretty high margin. They don’t give access to it for cheap,& in the last five years, the cost per unit performance has been nearly flat. They’re also more generalized than Tesla needs. Performance advantages from process shrinks have also stagnated. A good time for a custom approach.
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