Go Ahead, Sell My Data • Hacker News Board

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#61

Post by RexRollman » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 5:45 PM UTC

drcube wrote: post #56

bad_user wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also hate the tagging. For instance you do not usually opt-in to a group by yourself. Instead somebody else includes you in that group, without your permission. This is bad because opt-out of a group is an explicit statement that you don't want to be in that group, versus just ignoring a request which could just say that you don't have the time for that or you missed the invitation ... and people know you in those…

There is a privacy setting forcing all tag requests to come to you for approval first. Obviously it isn't easy to discover, however.

Lot of things are hard to find (like deleting your account). And there is the issue of Facebook periodically changing the settings, knowing that meaning people won't bother figuring out what the changes mean and how it effects them.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#62

Post by pingswept » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:00 PM UTC

etha wrote: post #55

pingswept wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Facebook were simply showing me ads for stuff I mentioned, or something like that, I would have no objection. "Hmm, this guy keeps posting about hats. He must like hats. Let's show him some ads for hats!" No problem. That's basically what I thought would happen when I signed up. I did not expect that when I visited cnn.com, after having logged into Facebook a week earlier, Facebook would log which articles I read.…

It's not obvious to me. How were you harmed by facebook logging this data?

I'm not actually asserting that the logging itself harms me, just that it pisses me off.

The reason it pisses me off is that my browser history reveals things about me that I'd rather keep private. Facebook is taking that from me without my consent. I would feel approximately the same if I discovered they were stealing stuff out of my garage without my consent-- it wasn't part of the deal I thought I agreed to.

Without getting into the details of my particular situation, I'll just say that I have political and religious views that I think are unpopular, and I don't trust the rest of the world to treat me fairly were those views made public. Also, even my views weren't unpopular now, I want to be judged for what I do, not what I read about on the web.

(I should also add that I don't think any of the private stuff that I mentioned is creepy; it's just my private business. For example, I might feel the same way if I were gay and lived in Mauritania (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Mauritania).)

Seem reasonable?

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#63

Post by sausax82 » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:08 PM UTC

etha wrote: post #55

pingswept wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Facebook were simply showing me ads for stuff I mentioned, or something like that, I would have no objection. "Hmm, this guy keeps posting about hats. He must like hats. Let's show him some ads for hats!" No problem. That's basically what I thought would happen when I signed up. I did not expect that when I visited cnn.com, after having logged into Facebook a week earlier, Facebook would log which articles I read.…

It's not obvious to me. How were you harmed by facebook logging this data?

An extreme example, your online history can be presented in court as an evidence against you.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#64

Post by lukeschlather » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

>While it is true that "we pay with our data" for many of the free (as in no monetary cost) social networks we use, what is the alternative? People don't want to pay money for these types of services and this is a business model that allows companies to operate and thrive while providing a valuable service to their users.

That strikes me as a pretty weakly supported argument. Facebook is in a position where they could do something very similar to Github. Free accounts that are publicly searchable and paid accounts with strict access controls. Many people would in fact pay for that, probably to the point that they could ditch ads on the free version.

Now, they would have to stop rewriting the code that manages access permissions every six months, but I would bet they could totally do that if they stopped treating ad revenue as the only way.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#65

Post by danmaz74 » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

slowpoke wrote: post #51

bnegreve wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Even if they don't they can get hacked (c.f. psn). This is the worst problem IMO.

> they can get hacked To elaborate on this a bit, it might not even be necessary for them to get hacked from the outside. It's certainly not impossible for a malicious Google or Facebook employee to acquire (and sell) data.

In Italy we had a pretty big scandal because people working with the main telecom operator sold a lot of calls data to businesses, lobbyists and such. This is a very concrete risk.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#66

Post by DanBC » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:17 PM UTC

kcurtin wrote: post #11

davidw wrote: post #8

I agree, but most people probably haven't thought it through, or if they have considered it, they're stuck on the revelation that they are the product, not the customer. Perhaps some of these companies should be more up front about 'the deal' to their users, and what its boundaries are.

What is wrong with being both? To me it seems like a mutually beneficial relationship. I am getting tremendous value from using their site to interact with and stay connected with friends. They are using my data to make money by serving me unobtrusive ads that don't really negatively impact my user experience. I do think that being more upfront and more transparent would be a good thing, there are alot of misconcepti…

> I am getting tremendous value from using their site to interact with and stay connected with friends.

What about the people who haven't signed up to Facebook, but who still have data about them logged? I see nothing mutual about that relationship.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#67

Post by csears » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:17 PM UTC

I agree with OP. People are mostly over-reacting. Trying to regulate the collection of personal data is a waste of time.

We should be focused on limiting the 'evil' applications of personal data, regardless of the source. If an employer, bank, or insurance company discriminates against you on the basis of personal data they purchased from Facebook, Facebook isn't the offender.

We regulate the credit rating agencies and how credit scores can be used. That's sufficient. Why wouldn't a similar model work for personal data?

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#68

Post by DanBC » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:22 PM UTC

kokey wrote: post #37

pothibo wrote: post #26

Damn right, I don't understand why people are going all up in arms for privacy on the Internet, this is _Internet_, you know, the place where everything is public. If you want to show your life on the Internet, you have to expect some people taking interest in it, whatever the intention. What I can't understand is how we are all upset about Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft and our privacy when we have NEVER given a…

I actually find it a bit funny when people put up personal data for the sake of sharing it with others over a public network, then go on complaining about privacy.

People tend not to complain about the stuff they've chosen to put online. People are complaining about the huge quantities of data that Facebook holds about you, with no option to stop them gathering or processing it, when they keep stuff that you've asked them to delete, and when they gather data about people who are not even signed in to Fb.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#69

Post by DanBC » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:27 PM UTC

csears wrote: post #67

I agree with OP. People are mostly over-reacting. Trying to regulate the collection of personal data is a waste of time. We should be focused on limiting the 'evil' applications of personal data, regardless of the source. If an employer, bank, or insurance company discriminates against you on the basis of personal data they purchased from Facebook, Facebook isn't the offender. We regulate the credit rating agencies a…

Facebook is the offender for gathering all that un-needed personal data; and then for processing it; and then for selling it without the permission of the data-owner.

To be clear: Gathering too much personal data, and holding it (even when the user has asked for it to be deleted) is itself an evil application, and that is why the EU has laws about it.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#70

Post by gldalmaso » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 6:43 PM UTC

Wilya wrote: post #21

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect. My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box.…

To complement your point and quoting from the link: > The information isn't viewed by humans (not in an identifiable way)

That is until someone wants to actively query it, then it can be made human-friendly, and like you said, we don't really know just what details they are storing and how they are profiling us.

It doesn't ever escape my mind that whichever country I live could just well suddenly suffer from a state coup (or in some cases are already under dictatorships) and right then I could become a political target for the sum of all my recent activity.

Right now I'm living in a democratic state and have my civil rights, and so I act accordingly. But that's all stored somewhere and if things change, the state can simply gunpoint a service and have them disclose all my personnal data. Said service doesn't even need to have a secret agenda for my info, but they are its holders so they might be targeted.

That also brings a different point which is the security in which my information is being held. Can a big service like Facebook's or Google's be hacked? It most surely can. And then, just how much data will be compromised before it's in the wrong hands. Cyberwarfare is here.