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Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

nature.com

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Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#61

Post by TameAntelope »

ryandvm wrote: post #60
TameAntelope wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trusting your gut over a paper published in Nature. Bold move! Some people would use this as a moment to question what they know about dog breeds, but you choose to double down on your beliefs. Very human of you! [0][1][2][3] [0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-pathways-experie... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance [2] http://aphilosopher.drmcl.com/2015/12/11/doubling-down/ [3] https://…

Strange how over thousands of years we've been able to selectively breed incredibly specific variety in canine physical form but we've been completely unable to breed for specific behaviors... /s

Not thousands, more like 150.

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#62

Post by TameAntelope »

bpodgursky wrote: post #44
dTal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should spell it out, or stay silent. This middle ground is cowardly and contributes nothing.

"It is currently politically unacceptable to make any claims that human behavior is primarily genetically influenced, and strong evidence in support of genetically-determined behavior in dogs will beg the question of why (or if) we don't see the same patterns in human populations."

The fact that people believe this demonstrates an egregious misunderstanding of how genetics works. People have never been "bred" in any meaningful sense (e.g. for a long enough or in a consistently isolated way for selection to be relevant) in human history.

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#63

Post by worik »

daenz wrote: post #49
_aavaa_ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect part of it is a fear of the following slippery slope: admitting of genetic differences between breads -> genetic differences between races -> providing scientific proof that some races are better than others -> therefor some races should be treated better/worse than others. I personally find this line of argument flawed. Putting aside any discussion of the idea of race, it simply does not follow that a) one…

I can think of 4 things that would make a science-based discussion around those sensitive topics more palatable: 1) All data is in distributions, and so no predictions can be made about an individual based on distributions. 2) "Better" is a meaningless term in these discussions. 3) Any traits are the result of optimization for a particular environment. 4) Everyone should be treated with respect.

> 1) All data is in distributions, and so no predictions can be made about an individual based on distributions.

Good luck with getting people to accept that. It is obvious to any statistician, but I have had arguments with experienced researches who cannot grasp this simple fact

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#64

Post by bpodgursky »

TameAntelope wrote: post #61
ryandvm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange how over thousands of years we've been able to selectively breed incredibly specific variety in canine physical form but we've been completely unable to breed for specific behaviors... /s

Not thousands, more like 150.

This is very wrong, there have been clearly defined dog breeds for thousands of years: https://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/mi...

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#65

Post by scollet »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #29

To be frank, this "study" is absurd & invalid, and there is 100% an association between breed and behavior (we literally breed dogs for certain behavioral traits!). On that topic, I realize it's controversial but think pitbulls should be banned outright - they are responsible for the majority of fatal dog-related attacks and there is a wealth of evidence indicating that they are not a desirable breed. https://www.red…

Just straight up linking to a dog whistle sub... okay...

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#66

Post by Maximus9000 »

echelon wrote: post #34
ShockTohp wrote: post #7

From the source: "The team found that some traits were more common in certain breeds. For example, compared with a random dog, German shepherds were more easily directed; beagles, not so much. And the authors’ genetic studies revealed that mixed-breed dogs with a particular ancestry were more likely to act in specific ways. Mutts with St Bernard ancestry, for instance, were more affectionate, whereas mutts descended…

This study/paper is ridiculous. Anecdotal, but I've had lots of dogs growing up. We have five right now. This does not reflect the reality I know. Shiba inu act like cats and prefer to spend time away from their person. They frequently get kicked out of dog parks for not being friendly to other dogs. It's documented and well-studied. They're not at all like other dogs. Corgis are protective, commandeering, and can be…

Also corgi owner here. Your description is perfect. I've owned two now. My first was pleasant like a nice family golden retriver. My second was exactly how you describe - I like the word "commandeering".

Even the queens corgis, who I'm sure got the best training money can buy, were still exactly as you describe. FTA below "For while the Queen adores them, others fear being a victim of their dark side."

https://www.macleans.ca/royalty/as-queen-elizabeth-iis-last-...

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#67

Post by squidbeak »

TameAntelope wrote: post #56
caterpi11ar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pitbulls have been banned in various places. Any data to suggest this phenomenon has happened anywhere that pitbulls are banned?

Pitbulls are not banned in areas where pitbulls are a problem, so no.

Pitbulls were banned in the UK in 1991. We still have fatalities from pitbull attacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_t...

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#68

Post by randomblast »

defen wrote: post #47
tkahnoski wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots more details from the authors on twitter. https://twitter.com/eenork/status/1520450288095797251

The author says "We found no support for policies targeting particular breeds" [1] which is completely absurd even if you postulate that their study's results were even stronger than they are. Imagine that their study found zero correlation between breeds and behavior. Even if that were the case, the outcomes of that behavior are wildly different. Some breeds will bite you and not even break skin. Some breeds will bi…

No. I wouldn't let a 6 year old play unsupervised with any dog. That would be incredibly irresponsible, and has lead to innumerable unnecessary child & dog deaths.

Would you leave a 6 year old unsupervised with a hungry rat? No - what a stupid question. A chihuahua can cause the same degree of injury (life-altering).

Is there a significant difference in behaviour between a pitbull and a chihuahua? No - this study confirms what has been known for years.

Breed-specific legislation is utter bullshit. It clearly doesn't work, isn't workable anyway (breed is judged based on looks rather than genetics), never had any scientific basis, and has been proven to be detrimental to its own aims time & time again.

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#69

Post by 0x737368 »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #29

To be frank, this "study" is absurd & invalid, and there is 100% an association between breed and behavior (we literally breed dogs for certain behavioral traits!). On that topic, I realize it's controversial but think pitbulls should be banned outright - they are responsible for the majority of fatal dog-related attacks and there is a wealth of evidence indicating that they are not a desirable breed. https://www.red…

Completely agree. Unfortunately a ban unless strictly enforced doesn't lead to much - in the UK all pit bulls are banned except for staffordshires(which imo should be banned too), and you still see owners walking their bullies and american pitbulls down the street as if it was nothing, sometimes witnout a leash even.

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#70

Post by 0x737368 »

scollet wrote: post #65
synaesthesisx wrote: post #29

To be frank, this "study" is absurd & invalid, and there is 100% an association between breed and behavior (we literally breed dogs for certain behavioral traits!). On that topic, I realize it's controversial but think pitbulls should be banned outright - they are responsible for the majority of fatal dog-related attacks and there is a wealth of evidence indicating that they are not a desirable breed. https://www.red…

Just straight up linking to a dog whistle sub... okay...

What's wrong with the sub?
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