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Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

nature.com

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Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#21

Post by TameAntelope »

bpodgursky wrote: post #11

This is one of those studies where the conclusion is so obviously wrong that I don't even want to open it, and it makes me discount the credibility of Nature overall.

Trusting your gut over a paper published in Nature. Bold move!

Some people would use this as a moment to question what they know about dog breeds, but you choose to double down on your beliefs. Very human of you! [0][1][2][3]

[0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-pathways-experie...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance

[2] http://aphilosopher.drmcl.com/2015/12/11/doubling-down/

[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/10/0...

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#22

Post by tkahnoski »

jimhefferon wrote: post #4

Isn't this study flawed because they asked people to report on their dog's behavior? When I talk to other dog owners, they discuss the dog with respect to their perceived breed standard, "Oh, Kelly is much more calm than I expected from a Rotty" or "Joy is pretty dumb for a Collie." If they somehow got neutral observers that would be much more persuasive, in my mind.

I came across this from one of the authors cited on the studies. https://twitter.com/eenork/status/1520450288095797251?s=20&t...

My understanding is they use genomic traits across mutts to try and validate if its inheritable.

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#23

Post by tkahnoski »

ShockTohp wrote: post #7

From the source: "The team found that some traits were more common in certain breeds. For example, compared with a random dog, German shepherds were more easily directed; beagles, not so much. And the authors’ genetic studies revealed that mixed-breed dogs with a particular ancestry were more likely to act in specific ways. Mutts with St Bernard ancestry, for instance, were more affectionate, whereas mutts descended…

Lots more details from the authors on twitter.

https://twitter.com/eenork/status/1520450288095797251

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#24

Post by _aavaa_ »

onphonenow wrote: post #17

This is such a weird turn in new science. For hundreds of years folks breed dogs for various traits. Labs are friendly (and not great guard dogs). Greyhounds can run fast and like to chase. Pitbulls can use their strong bite and a shake behavior to devastating effect. And the list goes on. Now we have nature coming out with a study that shows breed does NOT predict behavior? What's interesting is I'm not sure some br…

I suspect part of it is a fear of the following slippery slope:

admitting of genetic differences between breads -> genetic differences between races -> providing scientific proof that some races are better than others -> therefor some races should be treated better/worse than others.

I personally find this line of argument flawed. Putting aside any discussion of the idea of race, it simply does not follow that a) one group being better at certain things means they are inherently better overall. Or that b) being better at certain things, or even overall, means that others must be treated worse.

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#25

Post by daenz »

onphonenow wrote: post #17

This is such a weird turn in new science. For hundreds of years folks breed dogs for various traits. Labs are friendly (and not great guard dogs). Greyhounds can run fast and like to chase. Pitbulls can use their strong bite and a shake behavior to devastating effect. And the list goes on. Now we have nature coming out with a study that shows breed does NOT predict behavior? What's interesting is I'm not sure some br…

What you describe goes against the narrative that any living thing in a species is just as X, Y, and Z as any other living thing in that species. It's part of the "equality of outcome" push because it denies the presence of innate advantages and characteristics, which is critical to enforcing the idea that everyone has precisely the same aptitudes.

The editors at Nature are brilliant in publishing a study like this, no matter how flawed it is, because it's such a sensitive topic for dog owners and people who see patterns in dogs mauling people. It's guaranteed clicks, reposts, retweets, and angry discussion along the lines of "see, science SAYS!" and "the study is flawed."

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#26

Post by InitialLastName »

onphonenow wrote: post #17

This is such a weird turn in new science. For hundreds of years folks breed dogs for various traits. Labs are friendly (and not great guard dogs). Greyhounds can run fast and like to chase. Pitbulls can use their strong bite and a shake behavior to devastating effect. And the list goes on. Now we have nature coming out with a study that shows breed does NOT predict behavior? What's interesting is I'm not sure some br…

They aren't saying that there's no physical differences in dogs' capabilities.

Pits can bite and shake because they have ridiculous jaws and a powerful build. If a miniature poodle tried, it wouldn't have much effect.

The reporting on this is also sketchier than the science; the honest headline "Study of pet dogs shows breed is imperfectly predictive of behavior", which could be confirmed by anyone with multiple dogs of a certain breed.

The study gives 9% predictive, which (if interpreted as the chance that a dog of $breed has $(breed-specific behavior)) doesn't seem too far off base (netted over a wide range of breed-specific behaviors).

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#27

Post by caterpi11ar »

TameAntelope wrote: post #18
pupppet wrote: post #6

Stats that reveal breeds like pitbulls causing the majority of attacks seem to contradict this, no?

No? It just means people teach pitbulls to attack other people. Ban pitbulls and those people will teach some other breed to attack.

Pitbulls have been banned in various places. Any data to suggest this phenomenon has happened anywhere that pitbulls are banned?

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#28

Post by defen »

TameAntelope wrote: post #21
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

This is one of those studies where the conclusion is so obviously wrong that I don't even want to open it, and it makes me discount the credibility of Nature overall.

Trusting your gut over a paper published in Nature. Bold move! Some people would use this as a moment to question what they know about dog breeds, but you choose to double down on your beliefs. Very human of you! [0][1][2][3] [0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-pathways-experie... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance [2] http://aphilosopher.drmcl.com/2015/12/11/doubling-down/ [3] https://…

No, the issue is that the reporting on this study represents a general problem in science reporting. This study measured behaviors that for the most part have zero relevance to public policy. Whether a dog likes to eat grass, crosses its front paws, turns in circles before pooping, or enjoys life (Those are all real questions from the survey) are not things that the government or the general public has any conceivable interest in regulating. Nevertheless, this study, or headlines about it, will be trotted out by people to "prove" that a dog's breed has no influence over whether it is willing and able to kill or maim a person.

Re: Study of pet dogs shows breed does not predict behaviour

#29

Post by synaesthesisx »

To be frank, this "study" is absurd & invalid, and there is 100% an association between breed and behavior (we literally breed dogs for certain behavioral traits!).

On that topic, I realize it's controversial but think pitbulls should be banned outright - they are responsible for the majority of fatal dog-related attacks and there is a wealth of evidence indicating that they are not a desirable breed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/

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