Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#61

Post by pvarangot » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #35

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. Electronics.

I'm all for countries having local manufacturing capabilities. Not just the US. I was also pretty vocal about Argentina having them when I lived there and I'd love the US to have more accessible local manufacturing now that I'm here.

Thing is, as much as I can want that as an engineer with a somewhat cozy desk job it's true that on-plant jobs require skill and determination that I don't have so I feel a bit of like a hypocrite for suggesting that. Are there people in the US that want factory jobs? Because when looking for talent in California for stuff like manufacturing engineering, supplier development... or when trying to find small shops that will prototype I kinda feel that no one wants to do that. Salaries are kinda okish for those positions, but to actually rebuild the talent and the collective energy and willpower to work those jobs is going to take a while.

Honestly can't blame the Bay Area for not wanting to work in plant considering public transport sucks and everything closes early. You need someone at the house or with flexible schedule to be able to take a job on plant.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#62

Post by arcticbull » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #35

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> ... seeking to merge with other democratic nations (Australia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan).

That presumes that other countries want to be part of America. I suspect strongly you'll find that's not the case. Merger then has a more "1812" feeling to it.

The only folks tripping over their shoelaces to be US states are Puerto Rico and DC.

> America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. Electronics.

While these are strategically sensible decisions, that won't bring back Apple any time soon. Everyone manufactures in China because there's a critical mass of manufacturing in China. All your components are made there, by everyone, and the best-in-class assembly folks are all there. Supply chain and logistics are all there.

China's investments in ports, roads, railways are paying dividends. Including their one belt one road initiative offering overland rail links to the UK.

It's not sufficient to just say "let's make stuff at home" - it requires real, long-term, strategic thinking, huge investments and optimizing for the group. These are not America's strengths right now.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#63

Post by autosharp » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

justinator wrote: post #46

mempko wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems. You now see American business people like Elon Musk promote divestment from the USA in his attack on government deficits.

> China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems So long as you're not Muslim.

Those camps didn't build themselves.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#64

Post by GoodJokes » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #35

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

[dead]

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#65

Post by didibus » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #35

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> I want America to be #1. Free speech, being critical of government, and even having the ability to run for president are rights that every person should have

In principle I agree with you, but in practicality something maybe isn't working as expected? If those things mattered so much, why would the Chinese middle class have grown so much while the American middle class shrank? (assuming this is true, which I'm not sure)

At the end of the day, there's still a hierarchy of needs. If one country cannot offer its citizen those needs, reaching for higher level ones doesn't matter. Most people would rather be able to afford food, clothes, a home, electronic, entertainment, etc, than they would the ability to be critical.

On some other dimension, the best argument free democracies had used to be that the people of those countries were richer and had better lives, while totalitarian regimes, religious regimes, communist regimes delivered a worse outcome to its people. And while this is still mostly true, it seems that it's no longer as obvious which one delivers better value to its people.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#66

Post by jorblumesea » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #35

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

iPhones are not a middle class item anymore, or, I've seen plenty of "low income" people with iPhones.

Apple dominates the US market, and will continue to do so. So why bother to invest more in a market you already own? The US domestic market hasn't shrunk for iPhones. I think this is reading way too much into this. China is a new growing market largely untapped by Apple, and one that is significantly larger just due to population sizes. It's as simple as that.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#67

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

bt1a wrote: post #53

pupppet wrote: post #27

This will be the logical conclusion to every major American corporation unless someone puts a stop to this. If profit comes before everything, then so will China's 1.4B potential market vs US's 330M market.

I imagine you mean T and B, respectively?

[deleted]

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#68

Post by mdekkers » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #18

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

Is Stratechery's paywall new? I'm surprised to see one from an author who writes in a voice that aspires to reach the world.

I pay for Stratechery. It’s absolutely worth it. Top tier analysis.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#69

Post by arcticbull » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

pvarangot wrote: post #61

echelon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. Electronics. I'm all for countries having local manufacturing capabilities. Not just the US. I was also pretty vocal about Argentina having them when I lived there and I'd love the US to have more accessible local manufacturing now that I'm here. Thing is, as much as I can want that as an engineer with a somewhat cozy desk job it's…

> Are there people in the US that want factory jobs?

The only way to make manufacturing at home competitive with overseas is full-scale automation. It won't create jobs to bring it back onshore - nor should it for exactly the reasons you specify. Instead, it would be a strategic investment.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#70

Post by musicale » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

bell-cot wrote: post #4

So...local politicians, in a market where Apple was making money hand-over-fist, were feeling kinda used. By a huge foreign corporation. And the they started getting sticky on all sorts of regulatory things that Apple needed. Until Apple's CEO promised to do a bunch of "local investing" in their country. How different is this from the 1980's in the U.S., when Japanese auto makers decided that they needed to start bui…

> How different is this from the 1980's in the U.S.

Historians generally agree that Martina Navratilova was rightfully and lawfully detained for insulting the Republican party.

And that it was important for Toyota to comply with US lawful interception requirements for any communication in automobiles.