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Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

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Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#61

Post by whoopdedo »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #18
FakeRemore wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> really finicky Is it finicky? The stealth system is very basic and based on line-of-sight and sound (for human enemies). As long as you aren't running, it's actually incredibly trivial to stealth through levels without being seen. Even the bots aren't really a problem, since they have static patrol paths and limited line of sight.

Its really that I'm just more used to modern stealth mechanics that handhold the player more. It's not my style of play in general.

There's a generation gap here. The information density in current game UIs is high with status indicators, aiming aids, location markers, objective lists. Players expect the game to be a DM giving them lots hints on how to proceed through the game. At the time Deus Ex was made one of the talking points was realism. Players wanted to experience the game as a simulation. The hand-holding that's expected today was frowned upon as breaking the immersion. The article briefly touches on this debate between realism vs playability with regards to level design.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#62

Post by kiddico »

allenu wrote: post #44

What I think of when I think of Deus Ex was back then it was receiving accolades and a year or two after it came out I decided to give it a try. I saw they had a really inexpensive version out that was called Deus Ex: Special Limited Edition, for probably $10 or so. After playing it a bit I realized it literally was a “limited edition” in that it was just a demo disc. I couldn’t believe the publisher would rip people…

"Deus E(x)specially Limited Edition" works nicely as a replacement title...

At least you aren't alone[1]

Despite being an inferior product, Special Limited Edition was sold by major retailers for as much or more than the full game, sometimes on the same shelf. This version was very negatively received, as the similar price and misleading name lead many to unwittingly purchase what turned out to be an "extended demo" or "trialware".

[1] https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Deus_Ex#Game_versions

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#63

Post by magicalhippo »

ubermonkey wrote: post #16
mdrachuk wrote: post #2

I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of the time.

What's the oldest viable game to you, now? I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007. I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too, holds up IMO. Could we get further back than 2007?

Depends on the type of game I think. I recently played a few older adventure games like The Dig[1] (1995) and enjoyed them a lot, but early 3D games are a rough deal.

I did replay Tron 2.0[2] (2003) a few years ago and it was passable, though I think the art direction helped a lot. But I've also tried to play some games I really enjoyed back around y2k and yeah... mostly had to give up even though I got them to run fine.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dig_(video_game)

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_2.0

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#64

Post by kiddico »

laumars wrote: post #35

> “We were very influenced by three games: Thief, System Shock 2 and Half-Life.” Personally I got a lot more enjoyment from those games than I did Deus Ex. Particularly SS2 which still remains one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played and one of the few ones to make be jump and literally scared at times too. Not taking anything away from Deus Ex, but at the time it didn't feel as genre defining as the others…

I've been meaning to play SS2. Do you think I'd be confused to jump in there or should I play the first?

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#65

Post by pjc50 »

ubermonkey wrote: post #16
mdrachuk wrote: post #2

I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of the time.

What's the oldest viable game to you, now? I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007. I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too, holds up IMO. Could we get further back than 2007?

I recently replayed the original Halo (2001) and it holds up fantastically (although it's more obvious how long the samey corridors are between the brilliant set-pieces). The original Half-Life (1998) probably would as well. LAN Quake is still entertaining.

If you expand the remit to 2D games since they depend much less on tech, the retrogaming community has lots to offer.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#66

Post by Cthulhu_ »

hibikir wrote: post #51
trabant00 wrote: post #6

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

Money not being an issue can still happen: See Valve, which have a money printing machine in Steam, along with a few long living, lucrative games. Work on Half Life 3 never really stopped , and we had a 13 year wait between Half Life Alyx and Half Life 2, episode 2. Sources say that the internal standards for a Half Life 3 are so high, it led to many restarts and a lot of work being thrown away. But the real reason w…

An important note with specifically Stardew Valley and a lot of the indie games coming out nowadays is that they release early; they work for up to a year, then release the game in Early Access to start the flow of money coming in so that they can both keep working on the game and get a lot of instant feedback.

I don't think that approach would work well with story-driven games, but for e.g. Stardew Valley and a lot of the infinite gameplay indie games being made nowadays it's ideal. Also, they will add features all the time, so people will come back to them on a regular basis (e.g. Factorio, KSP).

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#67

Post by detaro »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #66
hibikir wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money not being an issue can still happen: See Valve, which have a money printing machine in Steam, along with a few long living, lucrative games. Work on Half Life 3 never really stopped , and we had a 13 year wait between Half Life Alyx and Half Life 2, episode 2. Sources say that the internal standards for a Half Life 3 are so high, it led to many restarts and a lot of work being thrown away. But the real reason w…

An important note with specifically Stardew Valley and a lot of the indie games coming out nowadays is that they release early; they work for up to a year, then release the game in Early Access to start the flow of money coming in so that they can both keep working on the game and get a lot of instant feedback. I don't think that approach would work well with story-driven games, but for e.g. Stardew Valley and a lot…

Some story driven games do it through chapters, more or less finishing a first section of the game that's only tweaked by later updates.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#68

Post by Cthulhu_ »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #56
trabant00 wrote: post #6

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

We get games in that spirit once every couple of years, actually. Prey (2017) was a fine successor to the Deus Ex tradition, for example.

Disclaimer: I never played the first Deus Ex, but I got more of a Bioshock vibe from Prey (2017), and that one had a somewhat original take on the FPS genre by adding scarcity. Great setting too.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#69

Post by Cthulhu_ »

notkaiho wrote: post #21

We need, in fact the industry simply REQUIRES, in-depth oral history journalism and retrospectives like this. The "gaming industry" is 40+ years old now, and there have been absolutely pivotal works in that time. They deserve to be interrogated and documented dispassionately and with rigor.

Probably mentioned elsewhere, but Masters of Doom is a great book that reads a bit better (for me personally) than an interview like this article.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#70

Post by clarry »

kiddico wrote: post #64
laumars wrote: post #35

> “We were very influenced by three games: Thief, System Shock 2 and Half-Life.” Personally I got a lot more enjoyment from those games than I did Deus Ex. Particularly SS2 which still remains one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played and one of the few ones to make be jump and literally scared at times too. Not taking anything away from Deus Ex, but at the time it didn't feel as genre defining as the others…

I've been meaning to play SS2. Do you think I'd be confused to jump in there or should I play the first?

You don't need to play the first. There are some references to it in SS2 but it's not a big deal.
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