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How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

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Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#61
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not semantics. I’m trying to understand what OP means by “real food,” because I suspect he’s peddling nature woo.[1] Heavily processed food, like sausages and cured meats, have been a basic part of the human diet for millennia. [1] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nature_woo

Then you just answered your own question if sausage is real food... so why are you asking? But if you want to talk about curing meats, that's a fun topic. The ones my fam makes are way tastier than Jimmy Dean's

I’m trying to figure out the contours of what OP considers “real food.” Because there is no scientific basis for the term.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do you need such shortenings, can't you use the original version of all the shortening... butter? I have never seen "shortenings" in france. pastries is done with butter and that's all.

The original reason for many was that it was believed that saturated fats were uniquely unhealthy, although it turns out that hydrogenated oils were even worse, so, whoops. Cost is also a factor in commercial preparations.

It's not entirely wrong but it kind of started with an industry having a surplus of vegetable oils and looking for other markets that they could sell it on (it was used for soaps till then).

So they started finding out how to make it food-ready and introduced additional processing so the oil wouldn't go rancid as fast and closer to fats that people were accustomed to (lard, butter).

They were cheaper than the traditional fats, which opened a market.

Then, traditional fats were pushed out due to health concerns.

Nina teichholz has written about the history and offers a dissenting opinion to the recommendations of unsaturated oils if you are interested https://thebigfatsurprise.com/

It seems the

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that there's a coherent concept of real food. Most real food advocates I've seen are happy to eat, say, tofu. They'll admit that technically it's processed, in the sense that it's industrially manufactured by pulverizing soybeans beyond recognition then adding chemicals to the big holding vats. But people say it's not highly processed, or it hasn't lost the natural essence of soy, or whatever. I jus…

Tofu is processed but also incredibly ancient[1]. If it was bad for us, we'd probably have found out about it by now. Ditto for seitan[2], tempeh[3], various pickles and other types of preserved foods, and cheeses. "Traditionally" processed foods get a pass on the "real" food scale because they've (mostly, apart from smoked and cured meats and fish) passed the "is it harmful?" test. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…

Your parenthetical about smoking means we should be cautious. The dangers of smoked meat only became known relatively recently.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tofu is processed but also incredibly ancient[1]. If it was bad for us, we'd probably have found out about it by now. Ditto for seitan[2], tempeh[3], various pickles and other types of preserved foods, and cheeses. "Traditionally" processed foods get a pass on the "real" food scale because they've (mostly, apart from smoked and cured meats and fish) passed the "is it harmful?" test. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…

Your parenthetical about smoking means we should be cautious. The dangers of smoked meat only became known relatively recently.

Also true. But arguably it was only possible for those dangers to become known recently. Smoked meats cause cancer. Death by cancer was not so frequent in the past, because fewer people lived long enough to develop cancers that could kill them. Or in other words, they were safe enough at the timescales that people previously operated in.

Also, even though the link between smoked meats and cancer is now as incontrovertible as the link between say tobacco and cancer, the risk is far lower. So it's not like they're wildly unsafe, just kinda sorta of unsafe.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's OK if there's not a universal definition of every concept. Some things in life are culturally subjective - especially cuisine. However, I think an intelligent person can look at string cheese and say that's fake food. I've started realizing that there is very little space for nuance and subjectivity in discussing things on HN

If you heat and then stretch mozzarella cheese, you get string cheese. Is it the heat that turns real food into fake food or the stretching?

Don't you know? It's the plastic they wrap it in. That's how you can tell, by the packaging.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#66
post #41
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the recipe I want to use. Tortillas call for lard, and I don't think butter would be a good substitute on that. (Actually, I think the only reason I have lard/shortening is to make flour tortillas) But you are correct, I would prefer to use butter when I can! EDIT: My parents are also vegan, and I like to cook with them. So I also use it then.

Same here, but butter and ghee can also be used to make great pliable flour tortillas. I use european butter though, YMMV.

Do you cool off the flour tortillas to prevent the butter from melting? I'm curious now!

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#67
post #31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw that, I may have to try it sometime! Out of curiosity, how much Ghee can you make out of butter (I.e. start with 16 oz of butter, get approx 8 oz? Or how much?)

This is how Ghee is made in my house. 0. Be from a family line that consumes gallons up gallons of curd/yogurt weekly. 1. Curd Process - Boil whole milk, let it cool down a bit, and add some older curd, let it sit overnight in your oven with the light on. 2. The next morning, put the container in the refrigerator. 3. At night, you'll notice a think layer of creamy butter on top of the curd. Scrape that layer off the…

This is awesome! I'm going to attempt it.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#68
post #31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw that, I may have to try it sometime! Out of curiosity, how much Ghee can you make out of butter (I.e. start with 16 oz of butter, get approx 8 oz? Or how much?)

This is how Ghee is made in my house. 0. Be from a family line that consumes gallons up gallons of curd/yogurt weekly. 1. Curd Process - Boil whole milk, let it cool down a bit, and add some older curd, let it sit overnight in your oven with the light on. 2. The next morning, put the container in the refrigerator. 3. At night, you'll notice a think layer of creamy butter on top of the curd. Scrape that layer off the…

Do people really need Ghee specifically? Or do people need "clarified butter"

If you just want "butter that doesn't burn", here's what I do.

1. Melt butter in a pot. This separates butter into its three fundamental parts: solids (floating at the top), oil (in the middle), and water.

2. Heat until all the water at the bottom vaporizes.

3. Pour remaining mixture through a coffee filter. This removes the solids (which easily burn).

Milk Solids burn at 350F, making raw butter unsuitable for frying. The goal of clarified butter (and Ghee is a type of clarified butter), is to raise the smoke-point to roughly 450F (roughly equivalent to canola oil).

Normal butter will burn before the mallard reaction (Mallard is roughly 400F). But clarified butter burns AFTER the mallard reaction. The mallard reaction is what makes the slightly-sweet nicely cooked meat taste.

Similar reactions occur in vegetables, meats, breads, etc. etc. So its very important to use oils which burn at higher temperatures (450F+: Clarified Butter, Canola Oil, Soy Oil, Peanut Oil).

Some fats, such as normal-butter, bacon fat, or olive oil burn at 350F. So you end up with a "burnt" taste from the burning fat before the mallard reaction even takes place.

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Ghee is a particular "cooked butter" taste. Its a bit more difficult to make (and more expensive than) simple clarified butter.

If you're sauteing, frying, or whatever with butter, its important to know how to clarify it. Or I guess use Ghee (but that's more expensive / time consuming).

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#69
post #26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ghee is quite cheap and easy to make by yourself, so long as you use a good butter. A lot cheaper than the ready made stuff, I’ve found.

I saw that, I may have to try it sometime! Out of curiosity, how much Ghee can you make out of butter (I.e. start with 16 oz of butter, get approx 8 oz? Or how much?)

Ghee is just clarified butter. You should end up close to 1:1.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#70
post #11

So something I saw with shortening now (to include Crisco) is that it now is mainly palm oil, which has been fairly controversial due to deforestation: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/palm-oil-health-imp... I have actually gone to using lard/ghee now for myself instead of shortening. It also seemed to be cheaper as well, to my surprise. I'm curious what other's think? EDIT: I meant lard is cheaper, not Ghee.…

Palm oil is also high in palmitic acid, consumption of which is associated with CVD[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmitic_acid#Health_effects

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