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Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

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Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#61

Post by anthony_doan »

nroets wrote: post #49
AFascistWorld wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pork consumption 2016 in metric tons: China 54,070,000 America 9,452,000 Brazil 2,811,000 It's estimated that the supply gap will be 20,000,000 tons in 2020, I don't think Brazil can supply that even if they ditch pork. The whole planet can't supply it. https://www.statista.com/statistics/237619/export-of-pork-in...

I was in China for 3 months this year. Both rural and urban areas. People said "You will never be hungry in China" and they are right. They are enough substitutes for pork, many of them just as delicious.

I'm not entirely sure your statement can offset the fact that many Chinese dishes use pork.

While they won't get hungry there should be some sort of anger and resentment for having to change their diet.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#62

Post by anvandare »

dragonsh wrote: post #47
dirtyid wrote: post #2

I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. In context of Lams leaked resignation remarks yesterday, it looks like Lam is going rogue. She's setting herself up to be replaced via disobedience, because all signs pointed to Emergency Regulations Ordinance being invoked if protest continues. Her legacy is already ruined, but I think she doesn't have the stomach to double down that far. Beijing specifically instr…

> I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. This is endorsed and approved by Beijing, she already declared the bill dead this is just a matter of wording. Legally it can be brought back as laws are always evolving and Hong Kong needs an extradition treaty with other jurisdiction including another system in its own country. For Mainland Chinese citizen the narrative will be altered, but will still be seen as…

>only peaceful non-violent struggle can bring about real change.

Utterly false, but persistently preached by those in power to ensure there's never any real threat to their position. "Just lie down while I stomp your neck. Don't resist. We'll discuss your objections later, at a more convenient time."

All political power emanates from the barrel of a gun. All civil power emanates from the people's latent threat to revolt and string up the members of an oppressive regime from lantern poles. The Founding Fathers understood that more than anything else. The First Amendment is worthless without the Second Amendment.

Violence should never be the first (or even second) answer, but it is the ultimate answer, and should never be excluded on principle.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#63

Post by AFascistWorld »

nroets wrote: post #49
AFascistWorld wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pork consumption 2016 in metric tons: China 54,070,000 America 9,452,000 Brazil 2,811,000 It's estimated that the supply gap will be 20,000,000 tons in 2020, I don't think Brazil can supply that even if they ditch pork. The whole planet can't supply it. https://www.statista.com/statistics/237619/export-of-pork-in...

I was in China for 3 months this year. Both rural and urban areas. People said "You will never be hungry in China" and they are right. They are enough substitutes for pork, many of them just as delicious.

I believe that's not how economics works, it's like you can't just close your eyes to rocketing condo prices and expect evetything else to remain the same like salaries.

Every animal protein source will be driven to raise prices coz it's not like China could produce vastly more but refrained, arable land is not enough, it imports 30% of it's food, they just can't produce the cheap feed crops needed not to mention the amount.

It is only in the recent 15 years that the average people could afford to put meat in their daily dishes (and aboslutely not in the sense as Ameicans eat cheap meat as a staple), that's why Chinese dishes are so heavy in carbs and veggies and soy. To take that away from many is the difference of have and have not.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#64

Post by anthony_doan »

stuaxo wrote: post #9
hardmaru wrote: post #3

Five demands, not one less. 五大訴求，缺一不可。

Can someone translate / explain this ?

Explanation part:

The Hong Kong protestors have five demands.

According to this subreddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/czhs4q/the_five_d...) the five demands are:

1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill 徹底撤回送中修例

2. A commission of inquiry into alleged police brutality 成立獨立調查委員會 追究警隊濫暴

3. Retracting the classification of protesters as “rioters” 取消暴動定性

4. Amnesty for arrested protesters 撤銷對今為所有反送中抗爭者控罪

5. Dual universal suffrage, meaning for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive 以行政命令解散立法會 立即實行雙真普選

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#65

Post by bjourne »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
stuaxo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone translate / explain this ?

> Can someone translate / explain [five demands, not one less]? From the article: “Apart from the formal withdrawal of the legislation, the protesters have asked for the government to set up a commission of inquiry to investigate police conduct in tackling the protests, grant amnesty to those who have been arrested, stop characterising the protests as riots, and restart the city’s stalled political reform process.” A…

What is the logic in demanding a general amnesty? There are lots of videos showing protesters rioting, throwing firebombs and the police and so on.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#66

Post by mytailorisrich »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58
mytailorisrich wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some western countries have extradition treaties with mainland China. Beyond the obvious lack of trust the issue with such treaty is the procedure. Indeed it could give a say to HK courts or it could simply create a simple procedure where HK courts have no say beyond checking that the right forms were filled. I don't know how the bill was drafted. In general, it is not unreasonable for HK to have extradition procedur…

> Some western countries have extradition treaties with mainland China Few, and with strict legal and political supervision [1]. The proposed law would have single-handedly smothered Hong Kong’s rule of law and stability. It was a stupid, unnecessary move pursued solely for Xi’s political concerns. > HK is formally part of the PRC Hong Kong is Chinese territory from a military perspective. Civically, legally and admi…

The list does not strike me as "few", which is by the way irrelevant to the point... As I said the devil is in the details, not the principle.

HK is part of the PRC, that's what many people miss. It is granted special status within the PRC by a national law. Hence the official name "Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China".

This is quite different from what, e.g. British people might expect. For example HK was never part of the UK and Gibraltar today is not part of the UK.

The point being that opposing "HK" and "China" as is often the case in western media is inaccurate and perhaps not productive as it sometimes seems intended solely at annoying the Chinese government.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#67

Post by verall »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #48
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong almost passed a law allowing extradition to China, a country lacking the rule of law. This is why the legal code failed to mollify the population. It was the law itself the protesters were protecting.

Some western countries have extradition treaties with mainland China. Beyond the obvious lack of trust the issue with such treaty is the procedure. Indeed it could give a say to HK courts or it could simply create a simple procedure where HK courts have no say beyond checking that the right forms were filled. I don't know how the bill was drafted. In general, it is not unreasonable for HK to have extradition procedur…

In all English news and the first article it's literally called an extradition bill, what would you call it instead?

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#69

Post by jplayer01 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
dirtyid wrote: post #2

I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. In context of Lams leaked resignation remarks yesterday, it looks like Lam is going rogue. She's setting herself up to be replaced via disobedience, because all signs pointed to Emergency Regulations Ordinance being invoked if protest continues. Her legacy is already ruined, but I think she doesn't have the stomach to double down that far. Beijing specifically instr…

> Her legacy is already ruined Lam’s family has British citizenship. That means she may be able to share her side of the story down the road. Her situation might seem reasonable, forgivable, even, once she shares the facts. Activating the ERO, however, would be unforgivable.

> That means she may be able to share her side of the story down the road.

If anybody ever sees her again, sure.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#70

Post by Riverheart »

dragonsh wrote: post #47
dirtyid wrote: post #2

I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. In context of Lams leaked resignation remarks yesterday, it looks like Lam is going rogue. She's setting herself up to be replaced via disobedience, because all signs pointed to Emergency Regulations Ordinance being invoked if protest continues. Her legacy is already ruined, but I think she doesn't have the stomach to double down that far. Beijing specifically instr…

> I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. This is endorsed and approved by Beijing, she already declared the bill dead this is just a matter of wording. Legally it can be brought back as laws are always evolving and Hong Kong needs an extradition treaty with other jurisdiction including another system in its own country. For Mainland Chinese citizen the narrative will be altered, but will still be seen as…

"This is endorsed and approved by Beijing, she already declared the bill dead this is just a matter of wording."

My understanding is another bill would need to go through the original process that first introduced it which is a longer process.

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