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Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

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61–70 of 105 posts

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#61
post #55

Is their research on people who have ONLY vaped? Most people who vape are former/current smokers. For me, I vape when not drinking and smoke cigarettes when drinking. This means I smoke about 2-3 packs a month, the rest is vape. It's harm reduction for me and allows me to still perform at a reasonable cardio level in beer leagues. Now my evidence is shotty, but my lungs "feel" better and I have a noticeable improveme…

This reasoning seems pretty strange to me. Why not quit entirely?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PCCF1bX-a4

(For those who can't listen to this right now, it's a short Mitchell and Webb radio sketch that humorously illustrates that it's quite difficult to stop an addiction simply because you know it'd be good for you.)

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#62
post #27
post #24

So, I am just trying to understand how it's worse than caffeine. I vape but I simply don't get how bad it is compared to the normal smog and other impure air we breathe. Nicotine aside,what makes vaping risky? Like are there specific chemical substances? When i starter it I assumed it was nictone,water vapor and flavorings which have no known side effects on the lung.

a while back there was a scare that some vapes had lots of tiny metal particles in their vapor, which would be really really bad for you. Dunno what the resolution to that was, but it’s probably worth following up on.

The concentration of metals found in that study were below the legal limits for inhalational medicines. The type of vaping device studied was something called a "cartomizer" of a design which is now broadly obsolete; these cartomizers feature heating elements with solder joints which remain immersed in the e-liquid solution, whereas more modern devices generally use a heating element comprising a single piece of stainless steel.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#63
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the same as safe I don't see anything wrong with the second part of that statement. Of course, the first part comes across as being an pretentious twat, but it's important to remind people who actually believe vapes are perfectly safe and can do no harm.

Mitigating risk is what it is all about. Methadone is less risky than Heroin, which is why you can get a prescription for the one at a drug treatment facility but not the other.

> which is why you can get a prescription for the one

And you can't buy either at a corner store. Methdone > heroin and vaping > cigarettes but we still should not encourage vaping. It is dangerous and we should treat it as such.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#64
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not analogs. The analogs can kill you via overdose. That's not happening here.

Not disputing, but do you have a source handy?

Natural cannabinoids only have a limited affinity for the endocannabinoid synapse.

>Studies have found that these compounds tend to activate the CB1 receptor to a greater degree than does THC, suggesting that synthetic marijuana compounds have the ability to induce far more intense effects than marijuana, according to the review.

https://www.livescience.com/57747-synthetic-marijuana-risks....

>Much of our understanding of cannabinoid tolerance, dependence and withdrawal has been based on studies involving Δ9-THC, a relatively weak partial agonist at CB1 and CB2 receptors. However, the SCBs commonly found in quasi-legal commercial products such as K2 and Spice are typically full cannabinoid receptor agonists. Importantly, a drug's efficacy determines how “powerful” its maximal effects may be in biological systems. A low efficacy cannabinoid like Δ9-THC will have a less pronounced maximal effect than a higher efficacy cannabinoid, such as the SCBs present in commercial products, and this difference in maximal effects cannot be overcome simply by increasing the dose of Δ9-THC. In other words, no amount of Δ9-THC can stimulate cannabinoid receptors to the same degree as the SCBs currently emerging as drugs of abuse. This has left researchers working with these high efficacy SCBs in the unusual position of having to determine whether their effects are related to the unprecedented degree of cannabinoid receptor stimulation elicited by these compounds, or whether they are produced by interactions with other, non-cannabinoid receptor systems.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4582439/

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#65
post #49
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theatrical fog machines are not assumed to be safe daily for 50+ years. Many things are harmful, but not obvious at low doses. People used to use lead as a sweetener. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate The current consensus is that vaping is harmful. https://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/impact-of-e-... However, it’s not really been around long enough for long term effects to be obvious.

> Theatrical fog machines are not assumed to be safe daily for 50+ years. Occupational hazards (chronic exposure) might be expected to show something if it had serious long term effects. > However, it’s not really been around long enough for long term effects Long term effects often have early outliers (the tail of the graph leading up to a long term problem) - we would likely be seeing something measurable already i…

Vaping represents a significant increase in nicotine use for young people. If it was limited to 40+ year old lifetime smokers, then that would be different.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent study here in Europe as found that some low-quality CBD e-liquids contain traces of solvent (used to extract said CBD) that are above safety level and may trigger adverse reaction in vapers. I assume THC e-liquid goes through the same sort of process and may have the same issue.

Yes, residual solvents are possible with the THC extraction process. I prefer to use THC concentrates extracted with CO2 to avoid inhaling residual solvents.

Co2 iirc is a physical extraction, like bubble hash, while this is concerning solvent hash, a different product.

The correct way to extract solvents is under vacuum.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#67
This is what happens when you make the drugs that have been safe for years illegal. People who make marijuana illegal don't care about children - they would rather have a few die as a moralistic lesson to others than allow anyone to get high. Because they're assholes. Full stop.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#68
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it’s vegetable glycerin and/or propylene glycol Both of which have a long record of safety as an inhaled vapor. They're the standard ingredients in theatrical fog machines, so have been investigated in detail by occupational health and safety agencies; the worst identified risks are minor respiratory irritation. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/1990-0355-2449.pd... >Some flavourings can be seriously bad, l…

Theatrical fog machines are not assumed to be safe daily for 50+ years. Many things are harmful, but not obvious at low doses. People used to use lead as a sweetener. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate The current consensus is that vaping is harmful. https://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/impact-of-e-... However, it’s not really been around long enough for long term effects to be obvious.

> Theatrical fog machines are not assumed to be safe daily for 50+ years.

The first link in my comment is a report on precisely that - workplace health and safety for theatrical performers and technicians who spend every day in close proximity to high-volume fog machines.

>The current consensus is that vaping is harmful.

There are undoubtedly some harms associated with vaping (nicotine is associated with a somewhat elevated risk of cardiovascular disease), but the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that it is vastly safer than smoking, which is the most pertinent point of comparison.

I haven't thoroughly reviewed the references in your linked article, but one issue leaps out at first glance. The article states "E-cigarettes also contain acrolein, a herbicide primarily used to kill weeds", which is a substantial misrepresentation of the facts. Acrolein is used in some niche applications as an aquatic herbicide, but it is a naturally-occuring byproduct of the thermal decomposition of glycerol and is found in most fried foods. The acrolein content of e-cigarette vapour is far lower than cigarette smoke, and can be reduced to negligible levels through the use of a temperature-controlled vaping device.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

https://escholarship.org/uc/item/9s90850c

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#69

Is their research on people who have ONLY vaped? Most people who vape are former/current smokers. For me, I vape when not drinking and smoke cigarettes when drinking. This means I smoke about 2-3 packs a month, the rest is vape. It's harm reduction for me and allows me to still perform at a reasonable cardio level in beer leagues. Now my evidence is shotty, but my lungs "feel" better and I have a noticeable improveme…

> Is their research on people who have ONLY vaped?

It might be given the issue is apparently with young people. One of the controversial aspects of vaping is it has been sometimes marketed to teens, potentially creating a new generation of nicotine addicts — maybe a dark side to a tool otherwise seen as being beneficial as a safer alternative for smokers.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#70
post #15

I sort of hate these articles, because the comments always boil down to three main categories: 1. I vape and this hasn’t happened to me, therefore I’m an expert on public health policy 2. I vape and because it’s better than cigarettes, it’s safe on those terms alone 3. What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the same as safe You’re either irrationally defensive (1, 2) because you feel att…

There are three pretty clear facts

1. There is has been a sharp drop in the number of smokers

2. There is has been an even sharper jump in the number of the vapers, especially concerning among youth.

3. The available evidence says that the inherent risks of vaping are an order of magnitude less than smoking.

As a society we're discussing whats the optimal public health policy to reduce vaping and smoking. Unfortunately these are substitutes so as we crack down on the availability of one we increase consumption of the other. And this is why it's important to understand the relative risks of vaping versus smoking. If they're similarly unsafe then it doesn't really matter how hard we crack down on vaping. But if smoking is far more dangerous than vaping(which the evidence points to) then we need to be much more careful about reducing vaping availability.

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