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Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

phys.org

61–70 of 80 posts

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#61
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the downside to that strategy? It seems like a no-brainer at first glance

IIRC it was tested on a small scale and didn't work. Fish ate the algae before it could settle on the sea floor.

I know settling to the sea floor is the intended result, but locking up more carbon in the steady state biomass of creatures would do the trick too. If we did this continuously could we just grow the biosphere?

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#63
post #22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main downside is that we are quite sure what would happen. The primary effect (a giant fucking algae bloom) is pretty well known. But the secondary effects are hard to predict and could be very negative. Running experiments on the planet we live on is usually frowned upon.

> Running experiments on the planet we live on is usually frowned upon. Without another Earth to act as a control group, you could say experimenting is technically impossible.

you could say experimenting is technically impossible.

You could but that hasn’t stopped anyone so far

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#64

Rises the question which temperature is the "right" one. Assuming we can control climate change at some point in the future Like having a clima-council which votes to lower or rise the temperature. Would definetly cause conflicts between very hot and cold nations

The economic consequences would be absolutely huge. Take my native Canada for an example. There's breathtaking amounts of land that's currently of little economic value because of a shortened growing season and permafrost. A small increase in temperature would have a huge impact on the usability of that land. Conversely, other places in the world would suffer desertification and suffer greatly.

As an amusing side-note I've pondered whether colder countries could/should/will intentionally spew C02 into the atmosphere to improve their own living situation. There's not a whole lot other countries could do about it except try and capture the C02 which is much more expensive than burning it. Obviously this doesn't take in effect other averse consequences from global warming but it was still an amusing train of thought.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#65
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sapiens seemed very pseudo-scientific to me. It seemed like Hariri had one agenda and was trying to push that desperately.

He is a historian, not a scientist. I don't think there is a good way to analyze the past scientifically, because you can't run experiments.

Any dig for old stuff or old bones is an experiment, which will strengthen or weaken, at a minimum, the hypothesis that stuff is at or near that spot.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess it's more that he doesn't want to test life support in PROD. I feel that way myself, but I fear we aren't going to end up with any better choices.

Clearly the answer is to create a copy of prod in a test environment (Mars?).

I mean it doesn't seem feasible, but it doesn't seem like a stupid idea, either.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#67

Anyone fascinated by this article, I highly suggest reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. I just recently picked it up after seeing it recommended on a couple of threads here and it did not disappoint. Humans have been affecting ecology for a long long time. If you are like me, you're probably wondering what you can do to mitigate some of the effects, while legislation and societal action is important. I also recomme…

The author just released a new book called "21 Lessons for the 21st Century". It's in my TODO pile so no comment on the content of it yet, tought you might wanted to know.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#68
post #49
post #47

This new research is definitely intriguing, but at the same time I think it's fair to be skeptical of this new science. During the times of increase in global temperatures, human populations are estimated to be between 5 to 20 million for the whole planet. That is a very low density. Not to mention human farming began before the Younger Dryas (a sudden return to cold temperatures), which briefly ended agriculture for…

There’s some evidence that the Little Ice Age was caused by a sudden decrease in farm acreage cause by sudden depopulation during the Black Death. I hesitate to call it anthropogenic because it’s the opposite of that. I suppose the delay of the cold period counts, though.

  a sudden decrease in farm acreage
but.. it wouldn't happen that way (like throwing a switch). Crops would rot in the field and then be replaced by native plants. Is this evidence presented in paper(s)?

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#69
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Give me a half tanker of iron, and I will give you an ice age.” - John Martin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Martin_(oceanographer)

What’s the downside to that strategy? It seems like a no-brainer at first glance

Indeed, and you don't need to start with a half-tanker, especially if you are not aiming for an ice age. You can start with a half-bucket and work your way up to a half-kayak, half-fishing-boat, maybe half-trawler.

Oh, wait. Some guy did just that in 2012 [1]. Some people claim it was an absolute success, while some others claim that more studies are needed (but they are not willing to fund them!), or we should not play with the only planet we have, etc, etc.

[1] https://planetsave.com/2014/07/02/ocean-fertilization-danger...

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#70
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sapiens seemed very pseudo-scientific to me. It seemed like Hariri had one agenda and was trying to push that desperately.

He is a historian, not a scientist. I don't think there is a good way to analyze the past scientifically, because you can't run experiments.

A huge number of scientists analyze the past scientifically. Between dinosaurs dying, creatures evolving, continents shifting, planets forming, climates changing, and the universe beginning, we analyze a ton of the past scientifically.
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