61–70 of 180 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Context change was implied as soon as the respondent began with the words "on the flip side...". The topic in this sub-tree is now about that "flip side". Discussion has expanded into new areas.
No. You replied to my comment. If you want to spin off into your own convo about homelessness in general, reply directly to the parent and leave me out of it.
The thing in common is that both sets of parents were either divorced or not biological, and the hospital tried to use leverage to push them off balance with bogus law citations and police involvement.
The trump card that hospitals play in a dispute is to call police and have you arrested for trespassing.
So, this looks awful. I would expect for the Mayo clinic to come out with a response sometime soon. In the meantime, I'm just trying to remind myself that news stories that stoke outrage often turn out to be telling the story in the way best tuned to get forwarded and clicked on, not always the most accurate way. But, really, this looks awful.
There's little in this report to indicate that there is any sort of "culture" of false imprisonment at Mayo, and it seems likely that they're supervising the social workers a bit more closely now, so it's probably a fine hospital at which to receive health care...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can easily see this whole situation occurring because of poor communication and the culture of paternalism in medicine. I can see it starting that way, but there is an absolute line the hospital should have never crossed: People have the right to chose what medical treatment they want. They crossed the line.
We don't know the full story and likely never will. What if the doctors were correct in their assessment that the patient was unfit to make medical decisions and that she was being coerced by parents to act against her own best interest? I would be interested in looking at her medical record to try and understand what was really going on but that is unlikely to ever happen. There is really bad information asymmetry h…
The article asks that very question, and answers that she was making her own medical decisions on everything except being able to leave the hospital.
The hospital doesn't get to have it both ways.
Read here: https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/health/mayo-clinic-escape-2-e...
"That hadn't jibed with the captain of investigations for the Rochester police. Sherwin said it didn't make sense that Mayo staffers told police Alyssa had been making her own decisions, yet in the discharge note, they stated she wasn't capable of making her own decisions."
And the two Judges they went to both agreed, and refused to let the Mayo become her guardian. Not to mention the hospital could have tried to get a different family member to be her guardian - but that's not what they did, they wanted themself to be the guardian.
And on top of all of that when they went to a different hospital the Dr's there agreed with the parents!
> because the hospital is legally prohibited from releasing any medical information but the patient can choose to reveal as much or as little as they wish.
That's not correct: The hospital said they would talk if the patient signed a form consenting - so she did (which they were probably not expecting), and they still refused to talk. That's pretty damning.
> I would be interested in looking at her medical record to try and understand what was really going on but that is unlikely to ever happen.
The article makes it clear enough: The parents argued with a Dr. who got a hissy fit basically and decided to cut them out of all decisions as a form of revenge.
The Mayo is losing a TON of respect here, and they should publicly fire this Dr. before it gets worse.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Which makes their actions less evil than the article implies. And accusing the mother of having a history of mental illness in an attempt to get conservatorship when no such history exists? Sounds pretty damned evil to me. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Even if they had their patient's best interests at heart, that doesn't excuse what they did.
We don't have any information on the parents at all. I know its good to give parents the benefit of the doubt, but these people could have been ignorant, suspicious and contrary. Or 100 other things, that make a trained physician wary of trusting them with anything as important as a critically ill patient.
Properly understood, the duty of physicians is also to serve those patients who are "ignorant, suspicious and contrary". They are also humans with dignity and autonomy.
As a HIPAA issue, the Mayo cannot defend itself here - it has no right to disclose any information on this patient’s stay or condition. Key quote, >“You’re only hearing one side,” cautioned Dr. Chris Feudtner, a professor of pediatrics, medical ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine. They “broke her out” while she still had a feeding tube in place, and had only just “Th…
It’s nuts but I have seen this play out in my personal life and people around me: people have no idea that they are in charge of their own medical care, and on occasion accept terrible advice. Wish I had solutions other than “be informed and willing to assert your rights” - because in the situation, that is damned difficult.
It's easy to attribute this whole situation to greed and/or malice but I think that fails Hanlon's razor. I can easily see this whole situation occurring because of poor communication and the culture of paternalism in medicine. It is not hard to imagine a team of healthcare providers that know or think they know what is good for their patient and do a poor job explaining why they are making the decisions that they ar…
Is there a need to attribute to malice when all the incentives are stacked against the correct behavior ? Poor communication partly occurs because at no point does the Clinic have to go against its interest, there is that much less friction in the decisions taken. Ethics is an issue but it seems that wouldn’t be sufficient as a focus for a solution.