This is very, very bad.
Now, what can we do about it? What should we do about it?
China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
61–70 of 602 posts
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#62Soon... "Amazon to ban people with too many returns from groceries"
Basically already a done deal, there was just an article here about exactly that with other major retailers the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16576461
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#63China is doing this explicitly, but the West has been doing this implicitly for a while. Doxxing people with the "wrong" opinion and emailing their employers, friends, etc. I pretty regularly see if on Facebook where someone says something and their post or a screenshot of their post is shared hundreds of thousands of times with test that says "make this person famous". To be clear people should be called out for big…
Woah, there's a difference between an "internet lynch mob" doing it and the state doing it!
If random idiots can internet lynch mob you, so does the state. And so will the state, if the need arises.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
i think this episode and Matrix got it wrong wrt. what humans would be used for. It isn't energy production. Given that humans have largest brain with largest brain/body ratio and with good energy efficiency the opening scene from Matrix looks to me like racks of GPUs running distributed computation/simulation. In the spirit of this episode and the totalitarian nature of China today and the whole world tomorrow, i th…
Humans-as-CPUs was the original plot of the Matrix IIRC, as pitched by the Wachowskis. The studio thought audiences would have a hard time understanding this, so they became D-cell batteries in the film instead. Ahh, jinx!
I wonder - can't they remaster the movie? It wouldn't be an issue for modern audience given the cloud and Siri/Alexa becoming household notions.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#65So what's the current exchange rate between social credit and Yen?
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#66Shenzhen gov are using facial recognition to detect pedestrians running through the red light[0]. Their even release high quality pictures without mosaic in the first version, just a few days ago.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#67To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'
It isn't the beginning of a new caste system.
It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals. (Not that I agree with Confucian philosophy)
Confucian philosophy had influenced Chinese culture for several millennial, and the oral tradition was that Confucius (Kong Tzu) himself distilled what went into the Analects from much older rites and cultures.
The basic idea here is that humans don't start out as humans, and require socialization to uplift them and refine their spirit to that of "human". To accomplish this as a society, there is an emphasis on education and behavioral control.
This has permeated many levels of the Chinese culture. What is novel here is the use of Big Data and AI to enforce these.
Confucious's philosophy and its descendent philosophies, though pervasive, are not the only streams that have influenced Chinese culture. If you are looking for echoes of classical liberalism, you'd find it more at home with the Lao-tzu, and the ethos of "let's improve our society with technology" would find an echo with Mo-tzu.
> Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.'
This already happens before Big Data, both in China and in Taiwan. It happened with other cultures that were influenced by ancient Chinese Confucian thought -- Korea and Japan.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
The CCP is not interested in progress, its interested in maintaining permanent, absolute power at any cost.
Like every other country, they want a healthy economy, which requires innovation. China's proposed social credit system would be counterproductive to innovation, i.e. the cost may be too high.
People have been hoping for this link between freedom and economic development for years about China. It turns out that it's just wishful thinking. China is much richer and no more free than it was decades ago.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#69China is doing this explicitly, but the West has been doing this implicitly for a while. Doxxing people with the "wrong" opinion and emailing their employers, friends, etc. I pretty regularly see if on Facebook where someone says something and their post or a screenshot of their post is shared hundreds of thousands of times with test that says "make this person famous". To be clear people should be called out for big…
Sorry to sound condescending but your post is one of things people dislike about the internet too - what about-ism. This is just sweeping everything under the rug by using the logic - "this is bad but what about x?" It seems as if every issue in the world needs to be discussed and solved at once or not at all. So, can we please stop equating doxxing with a government effort and trying to pass it of as being nearly th…
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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#70To be fair we ban people with felony convictions from huge swathes of jobs, formally or informally, even if the crime happened decades ago. Also, good luck finding a place to live legally if you've been convicted of a sex crime.
From https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-ma...
"A rapidly tightening labor market is forcing companies across the country to consider workers they once would have turned away. That is providing opportunities to people who have long faced barriers to employment, such as criminal records, disabilities or prolonged bouts of joblessness."