China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains • Hacker News Board

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#31

Post by Itaxpica » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

This is the case in North Korea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songbun), and it's terrifying to see it spread to other, less-totalitarian states

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#32

Post by walterbell » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #18

wufufufu wrote: post #6

Soon... "Amazon to ban people with too many returns from groceries"

Good lord, if I was banned from buying anything on Amazon or its subsidiaries I’d be incredibly fucked . I never thought of this before, it left me with a thousand yard stare.

Start here: https://www.google.com/search?q=banned+from+amazon

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#33

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #18

wufufufu wrote: post #6

Soon... "Amazon to ban people with too many returns from groceries"

Good lord, if I was banned from buying anything on Amazon or its subsidiaries I’d be incredibly fucked . I never thought of this before, it left me with a thousand yard stare.

How did you manage before Amazon was a thing?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#34

Post by krapp » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #23

iooi wrote: post #2

So if we assume they're getting their ideas from Black Mirror, how much longer until they start using humans for energy? [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/

i think this episode and Matrix got it wrong wrt. what humans would be used for. It isn't energy production. Given that humans have largest brain with largest brain/body ratio and with good energy efficiency the opening scene from Matrix looks to me like racks of GPUs running distributed computation/simulation. In the spirit of this episode and the totalitarian nature of China today and the whole world tomorrow, i th…

>Given that humans have largest brain with largest brain/body ratio and with good energy efficiency the opening scene from Matrix looks to me like racks of GPUs running distributed computation/simulation.

That was what the Matrix was originally supposed to be - the humans were wired into a neural network to bootstrap the AIs, but executives were afraid moviegoers wouldn't be smart enough to understand that, so they forced the change to "batteries."

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#35

Post by lainga » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #23

iooi wrote: post #2

So if we assume they're getting their ideas from Black Mirror, how much longer until they start using humans for energy? [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/

i think this episode and Matrix got it wrong wrt. what humans would be used for. It isn't energy production. Given that humans have largest brain with largest brain/body ratio and with good energy efficiency the opening scene from Matrix looks to me like racks of GPUs running distributed computation/simulation. In the spirit of this episode and the totalitarian nature of China today and the whole world tomorrow, i th…

Humans-as-CPUs was the original plot of the Matrix IIRC, as pitched by the Wachowskis. The studio thought audiences would have a hard time understanding this, so they became D-cell batteries in the film instead.

Ahh, jinx!

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#36

Post by walterbell » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #28

walterbell wrote: post #20

From http://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/10/26/black-mirror-... "You won’t be eligible for … positions in public office … social security and welfare … senior level positions in the food and drug sector … sleep in a bed in overnight trains … higher-starred hotels and restaurants … Your children … won’t be allowed to attend more expensive private schools … We have made extreme advancements in health care because…

The CCP is not interested in progress, its interested in maintaining permanent, absolute power at any cost.

Like every other country, they want a healthy economy, which requires innovation.

China's proposed social credit system would be counterproductive to innovation, i.e. the cost may be too high.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#37

Post by sytelus » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

...committed acts like spreading false information about terrorism and causing trouble on flights, as well as those who used expired tickets or smoked on trains.
The move is in line with President’s Xi Jinping’s plan to construct a social credit system based on the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted”.

6.15 million Chinese citizens had been banned from taking flights for social misdeeds.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#38

Post by daveFNbuck » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

mLuby wrote: post #17

willart4food wrote: post #12

Black Mirror?

Yeah, season 3 episode 1 "nosedive"—worth the watch (on Netflix). You don't need to see any other black mirror episodes to get it. (Don't watch S1E1 1!)

> (Don't watch S1E1 1!)

People always say that but it's one of the most compelling episodes.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#39

Post by wallace_f » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

jsonne wrote: post #11

China is doing this explicitly, but the West has been doing this implicitly for a while. Doxxing people with the "wrong" opinion and emailing their employers, friends, etc. I pretty regularly see if on Facebook where someone says something and their post or a screenshot of their post is shared hundreds of thousands of times with test that says "make this person famous". To be clear people should be called out for big…

>people should be called out

Anyone can be doxxed in the way you describe--harassed, slandered--for any reason, and a lot of people have been for terrible reasons. This thing has nothing to do with justice against idiots or hateful people. There are already courts, professional organizations, etc for that. It's nothing more than a disgusting, immature, backwards trend that has become an opportunity for hateful people themselves.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#40

Post by ghaff » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #18

wufufufu wrote: post #6

Soon... "Amazon to ban people with too many returns from groceries"

Good lord, if I was banned from buying anything on Amazon or its subsidiaries I’d be incredibly fucked . I never thought of this before, it left me with a thousand yard stare.

Well, that's the problem with having these dominant Internet companies (and telcos/cable cos/etc.). It's not that hard to imagine something happening that would cause you to be banned. Identity theft, software bug, triggering a flag for some strange reasons, or even just doing something that was dumb in retrospect. I'd actually worry less about Amazon than some other companies given that the lifetime value of a customer who feels dependent on Amazon is pretty high. But, in general, many of these companies have a disproportionate amount of market power.