Live data from Hacker News

In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

politico.com

61–70 of 98 posts

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#61

Why is that regulated by federal government at all? Shouldn’t there be different immigration regulations in the Silicon Valley and in e.g. rural Ohio?

It's the purvue of the federal government.

However, you're 100% correct that picking "the optimal number of immigrants" by committee is a terrible idea: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#62
post #31

>Trump might cite my work, but he overlooks my findings that the influx of immigrants can potentially be a net good for the nation, increasing the total wealth of the population. >The fiscal burden offsets the gain from the $50 billion immigration surplus, so it’s not too farfetched to conclude that immigration has barely affected the total wealth of natives at all.

I don't understand. Potential to increase wealth. Currently the reality is redistribution from the lowest skilled workers to the business owners resulting in a theoretical wash (barely affected total wealth). Yeah, that's one of the points of the article.

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#63
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite as simple as that. Immigration can in some cases actually create more jobs in the economy, but in other cases doesn't have this effect, so its hard to pinpoint the optimal amount of immigration for economic growth.

I would love to see the study that can find a case where immigration creates more jobs than it consumes.

In the farm industry, chicken processing industry, etc. In the 80s, there were buses dedicated to shipping in immigrants to do the manual labor.

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#64
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most liberals, I guess, were ignoring the problem you have described even during the Brexit. [1] I recall this Sam Harris piece [2] in this respect. [1] most liberals are forcing the natives to tolerate even the intolerances that the immigrants are bringing with themselves due to their cultures [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCWf0tHy7M

I think what terrifies me the most, that genuinely keeps me up at night, is not wars or pandemics, but powerlessness in the face of a steady inexplicable decline that nobody can really understand. That I find scary, because it has actually happened, and I suspect a complex systems collapse (the technical term) is by far our greatest threat.

The Maya are an example of a civilization that collapsed in a complex way: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-did-the-may...

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that require having an internal visa system? While some countries do it (China), it's a bit antithetical to having a unified country with a single foreign policy

Currently, if you’ll get a regular L-1 US visa, you’ll only be able to work for the petitioning company. This effectively limits your ability to move. The system works without internal borders within the US. Also look at Canada. Different Canadian provinces have their own immigration programs, with different caps and criteria: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/provincial/

How enforceable is Canada's system? I believe permanent residents have the right to live anywhere in Canada (citizens certainly do), so what's to stop people applying through the easiest province and then moving wherever they want?

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#66
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, if you’ll get a regular L-1 US visa, you’ll only be able to work for the petitioning company. This effectively limits your ability to move. The system works without internal borders within the US. Also look at Canada. Different Canadian provinces have their own immigration programs, with different caps and criteria: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/provincial/

How enforceable is Canada's system? I believe permanent residents have the right to live anywhere in Canada (citizens certainly do), so what's to stop people applying through the easiest province and then moving wherever they want?

Not very. http://www.cknw.com/2016/08/17/quebec-immigrant-investor-pro...

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#67
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get to stay in the country, work, some welfare etc, but without having to go through the system in the same bureaucratic way.

In what way do illegal immigrants get more welfare? I'm aware the some programs are restricted for legal immigrants (pending some waiting period or citizenship), but to my knowledge they are more restricted for those without legal status.

Please don't create many obscure throwaway accounts. HN is a community. Anonymity is fine, but users should have some consistent identity that other users can relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be an entirely different forum.

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#68
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most liberals, I guess, were ignoring the problem you have described even during the Brexit. [1] I recall this Sam Harris piece [2] in this respect. [1] most liberals are forcing the natives to tolerate even the intolerances that the immigrants are bringing with themselves due to their cultures [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCWf0tHy7M

I think what terrifies me the most, that genuinely keeps me up at night, is not wars or pandemics, but powerlessness in the face of a steady inexplicable decline that nobody can really understand. That I find scary, because it has actually happened, and I suspect a complex systems collapse (the technical term) is by far our greatest threat.

Can you please elaborate a little on "complex system collapse" concept? I couldn't get it.

The Mayan example given here by someguydave shown some kind of system collapse. Is a similar thing that terrifies you or what?

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#69
post #46

The article quantifies the major cost of increased immigration as "the earnings of [high school dropouts] dropped by between $800 and $1,500 each year." It describes the benefits to immigrants as "Immigrants, too, gain substantially; their total earnings far exceed what their income would have been had they not migrated." To take a specific example, maids in India make about $3 a day. If they had the opportunity to m…

> So the choice we make... Again I don't really see how this is a difficult ethical decision.

Did it ever occur to you that the government of the US works for the United States citizens who pay their salaries?

If you would like to take $10k from your own salary and send it to someone on the other side of the globe, feel free, but I'm not interested in becoming a personal charity to the third world based on your personal ethics.

Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture

#70
post #50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all 'skilled' immigrants, but /particularly/ the high end, you should encourage the following. * The immigrant must be employed with no gap exceeding 1 year, but they are free to seek out work with another company at at least the median (50th percentile) market rate of compensation for a job. * Their sponsor employer must pay them at least the 75th percentile market rate of compensation for that type of job. * ST…

Another issue is that some companies will find a way around by using different job titles with a lower average salary

You are exactly right, and they're already doing it.

The H1-B program is rife with corruption. It should be ended immediately.

Post reply on HN