In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
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Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#2Here's a rare thing, a submission on a classic flamewar topic that is substantive and at least partly grounded in genuine study. We'll try taking the usual penalty off the thread and see what happens. We've also replaced the title with a more neutral sentence from the article.
All: if you comment in this thread, please be civil and substantive and avoid political rants. Let's see if HN can reach a higher level than usual.
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#3This may be the best article on immigration I have read in a long time. Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding, but why don't we use immigration as a knob just like we use interest rates or any other government tool. Too few jobs? Lower the quota. Too many unfilled jobs? Raise the quota. It seems really simple to me.
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#4This is true, but voters are not good at dealing with ambiguity, unlike (some) economists. If politicians muddy their message by focusing too much on the small disadvantages of immigration compared to its large advantages, it will make them look unsure of themselves.
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#5This may be the best article on immigration I have read in a long time. Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding, but why don't we use immigration as a knob just like we use interest rates or any other government tool. Too few jobs? Lower the quota. Too many unfilled jobs? Raise the quota. It seems really simple to me.
It's not quite as simple as that. Immigration can in some cases actually create more jobs in the economy, but in other cases doesn't have this effect, so its hard to pinpoint the optimal amount of immigration for economic growth.
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#6There is also third side in this story; people who jump through hoops to get legal option to work in US. We had to fill mountains of paper work, spend thousands of dollars, wait for years...
But every illegal immigrant seems to have more rights than us.
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#7There is also third side in this story; people who jump through hoops to get legal option to work in US. We had to fill mountains of paper work, spend thousands of dollars, wait for years... But every illegal immigrant seems to have more rights than us.
How does every illegal immigrant have more rights than you? Mind to clarify?
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#8This may be the best article on immigration I have read in a long time. Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding, but why don't we use immigration as a knob just like we use interest rates or any other government tool. Too few jobs? Lower the quota. Too many unfilled jobs? Raise the quota. It seems really simple to me.
I think one of the differences is that there's the "knob" and then there's the illegal immigration and both have an impact now and well into the future. "Too few jobs" today doesn't mean it will be the same next year or ten years from now.
An interest rate change tomorrow will have an immediate impact and shift longer patterns but can be undone or furthered at a later time.. and 10 years from now, it will be lost in the noise.
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#9I think this is the key quote to all of this:
"Instead, it has changed how the pie is split, with the losers—the workers who compete with immigrants, many of those being low-skilled Americans—sending a roughly $500 billion check annually to the winners. Those winners are primarily their employers. And the immigrants themselves come out ahead, too. Put bluntly, immigration turns out to be just another income redistribution program."
If you're worried about income inequality and improving the opportunities for people near the bottom, the current system is devastating and only making those situations more pronounced.. which will have an impact for years, if not generations.
Re: In the current immigration debate, neither side is revealing the whole picture
#10Microsoft quote in this article advocating H-1Bs is interesting, as they spent $90M USD to open a research center in Canada in order to avoid H-1Bs. When asked why they didn't expand their Redmond base for the new research center and make use of H-1B visas they gave an answer about 'needing to diversify geographically and reach out to hubs that can offer new talent' which I just read as 'wanting to pay lesser salaries and benefits'.