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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#591

Post by wizardofmysore »

rubicon33 wrote: post #251
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

> You'll realize by the end of it just how important water cooler conversation is for your BRAIN

Any source or data for this assertion.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#592

Post by mindflay »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #467
coldtea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

The amount that people go on about how WFH is saving them from their commute... Really goes to show how badly so many cities are designed that these sort of massive commutes are an ordeal required by so many It'd be nice if an outcome of this pandemic is a political change toward ending absurd commutes by building cities better, but doesn't really seem like people are putting two and two together

+1 to this concept.

WhyTF are so many people commuting for so long in the first place? solve for this the rest follows

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#593

Post by midasuni »

xtracto wrote: post #327
sam0x17 wrote: post #170

Curious to see how many quit over this. A lot in the tech industry (myself included) seem completely done with not working from home, especially when there is no excuse for working in-person. Tech offices for pure-software projects have also become morally indefensible from the perspective of resource consumption and climate change. That said it's true that Apple does do some R&D that requires an in-person presence,…

In 2018/2019 discussions about open offices vs private spaces were all the rage. Bean counters (C*Os) were fast to position open offices as great promoters of interactions and teamwork. Fast forward 2 years and thankfully that conversation has moved to WFH vs office work.

Presumably bean counters will be on the side of WFH, as staff no longer need the massive subsidy of office space, and in most cases won’t charge more.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#594

Post by tonyedgecombe »

foepys wrote: post #533
deanCommie wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to commute. You chose to commute. You maybe did it for a larger house. Or maybe for cheaper rent/mortgage. We're not talking here about folks on minimum wage who can only afford to live 2 hours outside of the city they are working in. The highly paid software engineers on hackernews could absolutely afford to live 5 minutes from the office, 30 minutes from the office, or 2 hours from the office. They c…

Please remember that not everybody here works for FAANG or similar companies.

None the less people do seem to make poor decisions when it comes to commuting.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#595

Post by TaylorAlexander »

faeyanpiraat wrote: post #581
InvaderFizz wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you are like many people, and ended up working more hours during the pandemic, [1] then that erases some/all of the gains of not commuting. Wow. I cut my hours down substantially due to WFH. Pre-COVID I was doing 70+ hrs per week due to commuting into the area during the week and having nothing to do. Now I put in maybe 40hrs per week, broken up into 1hr chunks here and there and I'm not spending over $1500/…

Are you working less because you save commute time, and work more efficiently at your home workstation? Or are you just clocking in less, also producing less?

Sometimes working less doesn’t mean producing less, or if it’s less it’s not necessarily linear. They said they used to work more “because they had nothing to do”. The extra hours may not be worth as much as a well rested mind.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#596

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

swiley wrote: post #188
dm8 wrote: post #65

I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. I enjoy the social aspects. And commute never bothered me, albeit max commute for me was 45 mins (in the bay area). The only downside that I always felt was parking situation. Lot of my friends feel the same about office work. I believe going forward there will be companies (and employees) in 2 camps -- remote first and hybrid…

45 minutes means an hour and a half of your life every day that you don't get paid for and have to just throw away. (not only that but spending it doing one of the more dangerous things you can do in the US: driving.) That combined with the ridiculous housing costs in the bay area makes me wonder why anyone (especially more numerate people) would tolerate not working remotely.

>45 minutes means an hour and a half of your life every day that you don't get paid for and have to just throw away.

Wasted??? Listening to motivational podcasts while sitting in a traffic jam for 45 minutes is not wasted time! /s

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#597

Post by rytis »

randomsearch wrote: post #580
midasuni wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You work at offie A, your spouse works at office B. There’s 20 miles between them. How do you avoid the commute?

Well, for one thing only _one_ of you needs to commute. Secondly, you can work towards a situation where you don't have that commute, or it's cheap / clean / easy / you don't lose all the time. Spoiler: live on a trainline or buy a bicycle. Third, I don't believe this is the main reason for commuting. I think it's because people want to live in one place and work in another, which is usually a bad idea - especially f…

> people want to live in one place and work in another, which is usually a bad idea

do you suggest moving every time you change jobs? I suppose that can be done as a single person or a couple, but moving homes every 4-6 years with children who have to change schools, etc is (I'm sorry) an insane proposition.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#598

Post by [deleted] »

throwawayamz27 wrote: post #287

"Google announced that 20 percent of its workforce would be able to work from home permanently" Google gets a lot of PR cred for this but its not the case at all. They "estimated" that 20% of workers would be remote at their management chains discretion. Ie pretty much the same policy they've always had (you can be remote if you get permission, but you'll be the odd one out). 3 days in is just a trick, if you need to…

[deleted]

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#599

Post by TaylorAlexander »

trainsplanes wrote: post #512
wikibob wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus Christ. I eat well and spend maybe $400 a month on groceries and food. I’ve heard that Google recruiters attempt to con potential employees into some ridiculous assessment of the “free” food as a compensation benefit with numbers like those that you posited above. I can’t imagine valuing daily meals that highly.

Reading FAANG employees talk about food prices makes me realize the old "It's one banana. What could it cost, $10?" is something that was written based on reality.

When I worked at Google I so rarely paid for food that I began to completely ignore the cost of food when I did pay for it. It just didn’t seem to matter much.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#600

Post by dougmwne »

okareaman wrote: post #466
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rings true. The fact that people enjoy corporate offices and make friends there beggars belief. I always though that's where people with personality disorders ended up. Sociopathic (and usually incompetent) management, petty office politics of the lowest order and a focus on anything but the actual work meant that the only way I could tolerate it was a few months at a time, and as a contractor. Then they at leas…

The people who enjoy the camaraderie of the office, signing birthday cards, gossiping by the water cooler and talking about their 10K run for charity never struck me as the smartest people. It always struck me as a ridiculous waste of time.

The entire thing feels like such a charade to me. Cute birthday cards and asking about each other's weekends. All signaling and no real human empathy. The moment someone needs actual support they are kicked to the curb. Not our problem! The person who sat in the cube with my Partner for years committed suicide. Poof, it was like he never worked there. Have facilities clean out the desk. This is not your family.
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