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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#161

Post by crossroadsguy »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I had a stronger work/life separation. I rarely turned on my work laptop at home.

This is single biggest reason I want to go back to office.

In fact it already has started to feel weird that my home is my work place as well.

Even if my work place remains fully remote I’ll find some other place to work from but never some place as shitty as WeWork. Maybe I will rent a cheaper smaller place nearby if I don’t find a sane coworking space.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#162

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

softwaredoug wrote: post #56

What’s interesting is that this is NOT a hybrid model, as Google has done[1]. As i understand this _everyone_ is in an office Mon, Tue, Thu. This is a better situation IMO then some people always being remote and others being in person. 1 - Google lets up to 20% of employees permanently work from home: https://www.npr.org/2021/05/06/994123311/google-adapts-to-lo...

Wouldn't most people rather work 3 consecutive days? Then you have 5 consecutive days of not having to be in the office. Wouldn't that give people a ton more option to see family and friends and whatever else?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#163

Post by jes »

I think the title would be more accurately written as "Apple requires staff to return to office..." rather than "Apple asks staff to return to office...."

The latter seems subtly disingenuous to me. Yes, they are asking, but it's not a request an average Apple employee is likely to be able to refuse.

It may just be some weird quirk of mine, but I notice things like this.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#164

Post by onetimeusename »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I would probably agree with you but one thing that offset all the benefits of going into an office, for me, was having a really long commute. I tried to get things done during the commute but it really didn't work well. Being stuck on a schedule so I could use public transportation also wasn't beneficial for me.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#165

Post by JetAlone »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #67
desine wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never ask my kids that and I would try to find a school that does not enforce a mask policy. Especially with children, learning non verbal communication is very important.

> learning non verbal communication is very important You're right. There's absolutely no way kids could learn non-verbal communication if they had to wear a mask for several hours a day. It's not like literally everyone in Japan and China has been wearing face masks for 20 years.

I work in Japan. Before 2019 It wasn't even figuratively everyone, and it wasn't all the time. Wearing masks was done for many reasons sure, the most common reasons being: -If you genuinely felt sick. -If you wanted to avoid wearing makeup. -If you wanted to conserve moisture/heat for your face. -If you had some kind of social aversion.

Most of my Japanese coworkers take their masks off at their desks these days. People don't like wearing masks all day, even when it was already part of the local culture they grew up in.

I don't know how masks will affect non verbal communication. I imagine the next generation will come out of this having adapted more to detect expressions in the eyes and shifts in the corners of the face. For children with severe ASD I would expect it to seriously impede their growth in interpreting facial expressions.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#166

Post by pseudalopex »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #121
pochamago wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time

> I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time Well said. WFH doesn't fix a bad job or a draining company culture. If your job is miserable and you can't stand your coworkers then you need to find another job, remote or not.

Preferring to spend time with friends and family doesn't mean someone can't stand their coworkers.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#167

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

mikepurvis wrote: post #37
andrei_says_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a household with two teenagers one couldn’t go back to school while the other one flat out refused to. So, 50% of the kids don’t want the socialization.

My kid also sometimes doesn't want to brush his teeth or eat his broccoli. Part of childhood is doing things that adults insist is good for you even if you don't want to.

Some people have a gene that makes broccoli much more bitter than it is to other people. Some people find 8 hours in the office harder to take than others. I agree with your point that sometimes we have to teach children to do things that are not fun in the short term for long term gain but not everyone has the same requirements.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4235829/

There are plenty of people who have found remote work much more productive and others who are really wishing they could be back in the office. I hope that employers take the pandemic as an opportunity to learn about different working styles and create more flexible working arrangements that can accommodate all types of people.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#168

Post by themacguffinman »

newsclues wrote: post #128
themacguffinman wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone spends a significant amount of time commuting by personal car to the office. I see a lot of angst about hypothetically long 1-2hr commutes when the average commute in major tech cities is ~30 mins, and of course you can always control it by living closer to the office. Sure, not everyone is willing to make sacrifices for commute, which is one reason why it can be a competitive advantage.

I commuted 1.5 hours each way, bike in summer and public transit in winter both took the same time. I loved biking but public transportation sucks. Why? Rent was triple what I was paying to be close, or double to cut the commute in half. And I had no job security.

I'm sure you did but again, that is not an average case. You've evidently chosen a different trade-off.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#169

Post by ku-man »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

So, you like office politics. Enjoy the commute.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#170

Post by sam0x17 »

Curious to see how many quit over this. A lot in the tech industry (myself included) seem completely done with not working from home, especially when there is no excuse for working in-person. Tech offices for pure-software projects have also become morally indefensible from the perspective of resource consumption and climate change.

That said it's true that Apple does do some R&D that requires an in-person presence, but the number of people doing that stuff is tiny, and the vast majority of it is done entirely in software anyway.

Why is FANG trying to go back to the office? Because they all recently paid for multi-billion dollar headquarters. In the new remote economy these are useless plots of real estate, and they either haven't accepted this yet, or need to save face.

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