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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#581

Post by ravar »

ChrisClark wrote: post #580
nu11ptr wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

Because the vaccine protects so much better than just a previous infection. We've been over this, over, and over. But you just won't accept the numbers now will you?

I hope this is sarcasm

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#582

Post by [deleted] »

nu11ptr wrote: post #571
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#583

Post by headmelted »

nu11ptr wrote: post #571
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

Not disagreeing with this (although my understanding is that there have been studies that show vaccination has been more effective), but how would you seperate the unvaccinated / previously-infected-and-recovered cohorts?

Even by reconciling PCR testing data (which I imagine is incredibly patchy at best), you still would only know historically how many people tested positive (ignoring what is in all likelihood a majority of the cases that never got tested) and be able to reconcile it against numbers of vaccinated, which tells you nothing useful without being able to intersect the two sets (which you can’t do without uniquely identifying every PCR test and matching it to an individual universally).

i.e. the better data you would need doesn’t exist.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#585

Post by xadhominemx »

xienze wrote: post #228
xadhominemx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, “3” represents a tiny fraction of the population so isn’t even really worth breaking out

It's actually larger than you'd think, because OP didn't also include "only one of the first two shots" in the "partially vaccinated" category.

That’s a fair point. Between shot one and two weeks after shot two is meaningful

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#586

Post by gibspaulding »

rkk3 wrote: post #246
gibspaulding wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

>> It has killed more than 865,000 Americans > It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Like all deaths tragic, but let's not pretend young men, effectively kids, dying in war is the same as elderly & chronically sick populations dying of disease.

I would personally agree (though you will find people who won't), but I found it to be an interesting comparison just to get an idea of the scale.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#587

Post by chaostheory »

walterbell wrote: post #38

The media's binary separation of populations into vax and unvax is a false dichotomy. More causal factors would be represented by: 1. Covid-recovered 2. Vaccinated 3. Partly-vaccinated ( CDC reporting bundles #3 and #4. UK reports all 4 categories separately. #1 was already a high percentage in 2021 and is now higher due to Omicron. Edit: CDC estimated pre-Omicron #1 as 146 million people (as of Oct 2021), https://ww…

I feel that you need to include the people for masks and those against it. Unlike vaccines, masks do not lose efficacy over time or due to new variants. Both anti-vax and pro-vaccine supporters can fall into the anti-mask category. I don’t understand why people in the West are so anti-mask. It's been two years since I've gotten sick with anything.

1. Covid-recovered and Vaccinated + pro-mask

2. Covid-recovered and Partly-vaccinated + pro-mask

3. Covid-recovered + pro-mask

4. Vaccinated + pro-mask

5. Partly-vaccinated (6. Covid-recovered and Vaccinated + anti-mask

7. Covid-recovered and Partly-vaccinated + anti-mask

8. Covid-recovered + anti-mask

9. Vaccinated + anti-mask

10. Partly-vaccinated (11. Covid-naive + Unvaccinated + anti-mask

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#588

Post by throwaway098567 »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

Ethically I think it’s the people who cannot get vaccinated through no choice of their own that need to guide policy. If we can protect these people, and there was a fair amount of hospital capacity, I’d be all in on letting the anti-vaxxers just get it. I live in a country with health care. So I’d even be in favour of charging the anti-vaxxers the cost of care. Give the nurses the extra money.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#589

Post by [deleted] »

ChrisClark wrote: post #580
nu11ptr wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

Because the vaccine protects so much better than just a previous infection. We've been over this, over, and over. But you just won't accept the numbers now will you?

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#590

Post by histriosum »

loceng wrote: post #431
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

"... has killed more than 865,000 Americans, ..." Can we start holding people and publications to differentiating for past variant vs. Omicron, etc? It deserves and necessitates such nuance.

I don't see how we could ask that of either people or publications - the data simply doesn't exist. Only a tiny fraction of Covid cases get genetically sequenced.
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