NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#571

Post by peteretep » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #561

jaywalk wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. This is demonstrably false if you actually look at hospital admissions.

Do you have a cite? I thought vaccination reduced hospitalization to nearly zero. Here's a link where the highest state is at .06% https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrou...

"the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses; the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses"

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#572

Post by dataflow » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #547

dataflow wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part that irks me about a vaccine mandate is it being imposed before FDA approval. The FDA isn't confident enough to approve the vaccine yet, yet other parts of the government are (effectively) saying they know better than the FDA? Is it really surprising that people hesitate when they see this? Isn't it kind of alarming to hear a government say, hey, our own scientists haven't approved this, but we want to injec…

> Isn't it kind of alarming to hear a government say, hey, our own scientists haven't approved this, but we want to inject it into your body anyway? This isn’t what is happening - the scientists are encouraging you to get the vaccine too. Full approval requires a lengthy amount of time because usually things are being tested outside of a crisis. I think a lot of comments are missing that this is a public health crisi…

>> Isn't it kind of alarming to hear a government say, hey, our own scientists haven't approved this, but we want to inject it into your body anyway?

> This isn’t what is happening - the scientists are encouraging you to get the vaccine too.

That is literally what is happening. Their own scientists at the FDA have not approved the vaccine and yet they're trying to mandate people to get vaccinated anyway.

> I think a lot of comments are missing that this is a public health crisis which has killed nearly 700,000 Americans. A crisis calls for rapid action.

I wasn't blaming anybody for rapid action. I'm just saying it's not hard to see why not everyone's interpretation is generous.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#573

Post by sprafa » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

throwaway842384 wrote: post #343

sprafa wrote: post #94

By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again. We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, l…

Now let's do obesity. From the CDC [1]: > From 1999–2000 through 2017 –2018, US obesity prevalence increased from 30.5% to 42.4%. During the same time, the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%. > Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. These are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death. > The estimated annual medical co…

They are doing that very same thing with sugar taxes in other countries. The USA is not the world and my argument really is focused on countries with free healthcare.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#574

Post by BjoernKW » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

aplummer wrote: post #550

timr wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

> A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. > >Some do not. This one does. It's sad but we really need a way to flag covid misinformation like this on HN. There is absolutely no proof that covid disappears after a certain amount of time, this is obvious because only 2 years has passed since 2019. The evidence we have so far is that some people remain with long-term symptoms at least as far as until n…

The author of that comment obviously has quite some expertise in the matter (see their profile and some of their other comments linked to in this thread).

They didn't say that "Long COVID" symptoms aren't real. They just stated that this particular virus disappears after some time, that is once your immune system manages to cope with it and the infection clears out.

This statement is emphatically true. Otherwise, antigen and PCR tests would still yield positive results months after someone became infected.

An example of a virus not simply disappearing from your body anymore once you're infected with it would be HIV.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#575

Post by sprafa » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

15155 wrote: post #427

sprafa wrote: post #94

By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again. We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, l…

"Precious resources" - the narrative was that the resources _were_ precious and we needed "two weeks to slow the spread." Why are these resources somehow "precious" two years later? Where was the ventilator production? Staffing? If this were such a serious issue, what have we been doing?

Ignoring the meat of the argument to say some straw man nonsense. Gday troll

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#576

Post by bingohbangoh » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #553

timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

Won’t there always be a variant popping up somewhere in some part of the world though?

The idea that “if we all got vaccinated, we could have zero variants” reeks of “zero COVID” thinking

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#577

Post by swader999 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

shaicoleman wrote: post #499

rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

> One of them still doesn't have their sense of taste and smell back, after nearly 3 weeks post symptoms. They describe being brain fog, and tiredness that they didn't have before, as well as an "itch" in their lungs when exercising that they didn't have before. They'd might want to look into the I-RECOVER Protocol for treating Long COVID: https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-recover... https://youtu.…

That long covid protocol worked for me. Horse paste ivermectin because you can't get a prescription for human kind where I live. Then followed up by prednisone to remove lung inflammation that persisted after ivermectin. I had all the long covid symptoms and it was brutal for three months.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#578

Post by wtfzse » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #565

tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

Do you not show your ID at a bar? What privacy are you giving up here?

It isn't about privacy dumbass. It is about freedom of movement and travel - something the 5th amendment enshrines perfectly well in English for those of us in the USA.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

https://famguardian.org/Subjects/Freedom/Rights/Travel/Right...

This entire "mandate", "law" whatever you want to call is 100% completely unconstitutional. Yes, it might take a year to travel through the courts but it is clearly unconstitutional.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#579

Post by readflaggedcomm » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #545

dotcommand wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Because it's highly tyrannical? Odd how cavalier you are about this. Nevermind that you have a right to privacy when it comes to health matters, this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere. Also, all tyrannies a born to "protect you". > Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the po…

> Because it's highly tyrannical? I hope that one day you'll experience an actual tyranny for comparison. Something like Belarus or North Korea. > this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere Yes, because US car drivers don't already do that? And pretty much anyone in developed countries in the world.

Not everybody drives. Identification for voting is onerous enough, not to mention for groceries.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#580

Post by jcadam » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #545

dotcommand wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Because it's highly tyrannical? Odd how cavalier you are about this. Nevermind that you have a right to privacy when it comes to health matters, this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere. Also, all tyrannies a born to "protect you". > Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the po…

> Because it's highly tyrannical? I hope that one day you'll experience an actual tyranny for comparison. Something like Belarus or North Korea. > this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere Yes, because US car drivers don't already do that? And pretty much anyone in developed countries in the world.

> I hope that one day you'll experience an actual tyranny for comparison. Something like Belarus or North Korea.

Cool. We should submit to any and all amounts of government overreach and abuse of power until our rulers decide to go full Pol-Pot. Then we can say "Hey, wait a minute."

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.