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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#571

Post by sokoloff »

piva00 wrote: post #387
Ntrails wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actively not enjoying single life is a reasonable state of being. Not desirable, but not a mental health issue. Being measurably happier with a partner in your life is a positive outcome, indeed is one we should all strive for (or why bother)

But you are moving the goalposts, the statement in discussion is this: > I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. This is not healthy, doesn't matter how much you care about your partner and relationship. Feeling miserable every day without someone is not a good sign. You can be much happier when you are with your partner, you can enjoy to spend most days wi…

I feel like you're reading that text differently. I don't think they're saying "if my wife or I are apart for a few days [business trip or something], then I'm miserable", but rather "I was miserable before I found the relationship with my wife, but we can perfectly well be apart for normal business trips without issue."

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#572

Post by watwut »

thelean12 wrote: post #525
dnissley wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, for the most part I agree, I just think that it's possible to frame the fact that a lot of guys simply being at a loss of how to go about this can be framed as a societal failure of some kind. These kinds of skills are rarely talked about in any setting. Maybe that's how it's always been, but it seems to me that young men really aren't given much actionable advice when it comes to attracting a mate, and at one…

Generally agree with you. I guess I was looking at it a little differently. If I'm talking to an individual, the only thing that matters is what they can do to better themselves now. It's not productive, on an individual level, to say stuff like "if only society was better!" > I try and fail to get them to open up about their feelings about this or anything else. To be fair, opening up about my feelings to my family…

> Don't try to kiss/etc her without asking permission. Norms around when it's ok to flirt (almost never appropriate). All of these kinds of negative rules made interactions with women feel like a minefield to me

Is the "don't kiss her without permission" really they difficult? And frankly the same with flirting.

If these make women minefield, I don't see how to make it better without sacrificing women who fly want to be kissed or flirted with while they have presentation at work.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#573

Post by rednerrus »

spoonjim wrote: post #140

Essentially, what we have right now in the sexual marketplace echoes what we have in the economy... a lot of the sex is being had by a small fraction of the people. The need for sex is perhaps as high as the need for money but nobody talks about this crushing inequality, perhaps because there is no practical way to “tax and redistribute” sex. The problem is worse for men since a man needs a certain set of skills and…

Let this be the moment when the pendulum began to swing back in the conservative direction. Conservatives get a lot of things wrong but not all of it.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#574

Post by Invictus0 »

Almost everything on /r/relationships can be boiled down to poor communication on the part of one or more parties. Seriously. If everyone were taught proper communication and confrontation skills, there would be a lot more happy people on this earth.

Dead bedrooms: instead of making a spreadsheet of your wife's excuses and passive aggressively emailing it to her, talk to her without anger or blame, explain how you feel, get a sense for how she feels, and make a plan to address the issue.

Incels similarly have terrible communication skills and most probably wouldn't be incels today if they learned how to communicate. Their worldview is a way to cope with their issue without admitting they have an issue; by blaming another group (women) for the issue.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#575

Post by istinetz »

username90 wrote: post #425
bloak wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"History shows that 80% of women reproduced compared to only 40% of men!" That doesn't necessarily imply polygamy, and it doesn't necessarily imply "incels". Imagine a society in which women get married at age 16 and typically die during childbirth before they reach the age of 32, and men get married at age 32, if they live that long, which most of them don't, and then get married again when the first wife dies durin…

Women have lived longer than men throughout most of history and in basically every society, so your theory doesn't hold. Childbirth was dangerous but men's work was even more dangerous.

There are A LOT of claims itt, and not nearly enough sources for any of it.

It feels like you're right, but what "feels right" turns out to be wrong pretty often.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#576

Post by thatguy0900 »

alex_smart wrote: post #558
QuercusMax wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you think people deserve housing and food, in the richest country in the history of the world? Our society could absolutely provide them, it just doesn't because they're "not worthy".

Sorry what? USA doesn't provide food to poor people? I find that a little hard to believe. Even India, with one tenth the resources per capita, manages to do that.

They do, food stamps are a monthly allotment on a debit card for low income households.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#577

Post by txsoftwaredev »

pengaru wrote: post #306

Isn't it kind of obvious that young single men are competing with nearly all adult men for the young women? Esp. with the rising divorce rates, more non-young men are going back on the market than previously, and they've got more financial stability and general security to offer than most their younger competitors. I'm betting they're not exactly chomping at the bit to shack up with women their age or older.

Divorce rates have been falling over the past decade. In 2019 divorce rates hit an all time low.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#578

Post by waterhouse »

TameAntelope wrote: post #315
twobitshifter wrote: post #136

The average man will go through a period of involuntary celibacy and I don’t believe this is a new thing but we’re now good at labeling. History shows that 80% of women reproduced compared to only 40% of men! https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/2012... (Note not sure the primary source on this stat, but the general idea is that polygamy was once common leading to fewer men reproducing) We’re doing…

I know we joke about it a lot, but I think there's a serious case to be made that the Internet's ability to connect groups of previously unconnected people might end up literally ending humanity, or at least severely setting humanity back from a human rights standpoint. "Incels" are one example of this that you're pointing out here, where a group of people who've always existed without name are now able to group toge…

> create a feedback loop amongst themselves that results in literally mass murder.

I dispute that causation. Mass murderers are extreme outliers that usually have identifiable mental problems, and I would say the primary cause of their behavior is those mental problems, not whatever particular thing they say triggered them. Also, even if you did show that a certain ideological group was significantly overrepresented among mass murderers, you would have to rule out the other methods of causation (e.g. this guy is a loner because of various problems, and he joined this group of loners because they welcomed him—doesn't mean the group caused him to go commit the murders, and in fact it's conceivable that being in the group reduces the likelihood of the potential murderers actually going and doing it).

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#580

Post by graphtrader »

schnevets wrote: post #245
colanderman wrote: post #154

I feel a common issue with such "dead bedroom" discussions is the seeming lack of capacity of some parties (including some prominent toplevel comments here) to understand how deep a need for sex many people have. To think sex can be replaced with "strong friendships" is laughable to anyone who actually feels a strong desire for sex. The dead bedroom situations I've seen with my friends (M->F equally as well as F->M)…

I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends, and I sincerely believe the problem is the western world's secretly coy perception of sex. There is a superficial surface level that is extremely wrong (for example, Successful people have sex, the most successful people have the hottest sex with the hottest partners; Sex isn't about planning it's about letting the desire overcome…

I just don't think people value sexual compatibility enough.

If you aren't compatible sexually then you are not compatible.

I have been married twice. My first wife was practically my "soul mate", we had the same taste in everything. We were best buds, everything was perfect besides our sex life sucked. It always led to conflict and problems.

My wife now we have almost nothing in common when it comes to taste, art, music, hobbies, nothing. We have an amazing sex life though. I couldn't be happier.

That is not how it works in the movies. I am supposed to meet my first wife and live happily ever after. It is the difference between real life and fiction.

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