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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#551

Post by watwut »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #43
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>having a romantic and sexual relationship is not a requirement for a happy life. It is for many, many, many people.

That's one bitter truth about life: (almost) everyone needs some amount of physical intimacy to be happy, but it's not something anyone is entitled to. Those of us who have access to that are privileged. I agree with the author though. IMO the existence of so many "incels" is some expression of a real societal problem. Many young men are suffering, and we don't acknowledge their suffering as genuine. We just tell the…

Women get to be single and lonely too.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#552

Post by cblconfederate »

a_band wrote: post #77

The correlation of the appearance of this phenomenon with the rise of porn really shouldn't be ignored.

Assuming porn causes incels, but the golden age of porn started at 1969, so that doesnt work. Assuming incels cause porn, has porn become more profitable in the past ~20 years? I 'd say probably true based on the innovation of the profitability models , expecially after onlyfans became a thing

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#553

Post by globular-toast »

a_band wrote: post #77

The correlation of the appearance of this phenomenon with the rise of porn really shouldn't be ignored.

People are very reluctant to talk about porn for some reason. Porn is the reason all men are able to (virtually) practise polygamy today. But most will adamantly deny that it has anything to do with a natural male desire for polygamy.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#554

Post by xboxnolifes »

void_mint wrote: post #431
xboxnolifes wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > indeed is one we should all strive for (or why bother) > What do you mean by this? Why bother with what? Why bother finding a partner. If you aren't measurably happier with a partner, why go through the effort of finding one?

An inability to be happy without a person is not the same as a person making you happy. "I'm miserable when my partner isn't around", is not the same as "I'm happier when my partner is around". Does that make sense?

That isn't what I was replying to.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#555

Post by sokoloff »

TameAntelope wrote: post #447
iammisc wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe pornography leads to hell, yes. I also believe that, even if you didn't believe that, it would lead to unhappy marriages? You should feel free to argue to me the benefits of pornography, though.

I think entering into an argument knowing you won't change your mind is disingenuous, and I think your argument that pornography leads to unhappy marriages hinges on the idea that pornography leads to hell, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it. It's actually the only reason you've given, and then you built your conclusion on top of it. My point is by bringing religion into the conversation, you ratcheted up the s…

They responded on a thread where someone else brought religion in by specifically mentioning the discussions held amongst pastors about their sex lives.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#556

Post by Fargren »

ethbr0 wrote: post #549
colanderman wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you're in a sexually exclusive relationship.

Sexual exclusive relationships are a subset of healthy relationships.

That would imply all sexual exclusive relationships are healthy, which is very much not the case. Sexual exclusivity and relationship health are orthogonal.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#557

Post by void_mint »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #554
void_mint wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An inability to be happy without a person is not the same as a person making you happy. "I'm miserable when my partner isn't around", is not the same as "I'm happier when my partner is around". Does that make sense?

That isn't what I was replying to.

> Why bother finding a partner.

> "I'm happier when my partner is around"

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#558

Post by alex_smart »

QuercusMax wrote: post #485
ayyy wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've conflated the idea of "needing" something with the idea of "deserving" something. For example, some people need food, but they don't deserve it just because they're alive. We call that hunger. Other people need housing, but they don't deserve it just because they're alive. We call that homelessness. Some need sex, but they don't deserve it just because they're alive. We call those people incels.

Why don't you think people deserve housing and food, in the richest country in the history of the world? Our society could absolutely provide them, it just doesn't because they're "not worthy".

Sorry what? USA doesn't provide food to poor people? I find that a little hard to believe. Even India, with one tenth the resources per capita, manages to do that.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#559

Post by mlyle »

gsk22 wrote: post #353
mlyle wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look-- my life would be crap without my wife. She's awesome and I am much happier in partnered life. I'd survive and have some enjoyment alone, but most of us end up partnered up because it's a serious buff to life fulfillment. That doesn't make us codependent, to know that I'd spend lots of time miserable if unpartnered and without my wife in particular.

There's a big difference between "I am happier with a partner" and "I am miserable without a partner".

Yah. I think for me, in the long term, I'd be miserable without a partner. The continuity and shared journey is a key part of what makes life tolerable. Yes, friendships are great, but they're not the same. Not to mention: I like getting laid.

I also think my wife is a uniquely good partner for me. If I lost her, for some reason, it would be difficult to find a situation nearly as good for me.

That's hardly the same as codependence, though.

I also gotta say: When my wife leaves to travel on her own or with the kids for a few days... it's bliss, both during and after. A few days without her is great, and reunion and the chance to share stories of our independent adventures is great, too.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#560

Post by ethbr0 »

piva00 wrote: post #416
schnevets wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends, and I sincerely believe the problem is the western world's secretly coy perception of sex. There is a superficial surface level that is extremely wrong (for example, Successful people have sex, the most successful people have the hottest sex with the hottest partners; Sex isn't about planning it's about letting the desire overcome…

> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures. I agree this is very Americanised, I can chime from two different perspectives and cultures: Brazil and Sweden. Brazil is... Very Americanised, I believe that the same issues the USA has with sex are present in Brazil, it's expressed in some different ways but the underlying issu…

I typically don't talk about it here, but I'd say I've been part of a pretty sexually liberated community (US based) for... about 15 years.

Because of our educational focus, we had a high number of new people come through, learn and mature, and then go off to do other things. So I'd like to think I learned something watching the common arcs.

In American culture, there are two big hangups about sex: (1) nobody is comfortable admitting ignorance & (2) the former leads to nobody being able to communicate about anything sexual.

Essentially every critical sexual conversation is some variant of this: "I'm not sure about X. How do you feel about X?" "I've never tried X. Do you want to try it?" "I'm nervous, but I do. How about if we Y'd and Z'd to start?" "I don't think I'd like Y. What if we Y_1'd and Z'd?" "I'm up for that!"

Notice the numerous admissions of ignorance. Because real conversations start in truth, without judgement. And it's worth it, because that's how you get to the fun times. Either in or out of a relationship.

(And ironically, you know who is typically comfortable admitting ignorance? Those with the most experience)

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