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GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

discuss.grapheneos.org

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Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#561

Post by wolvoleo »

Groxx wrote: post #527
cubefox wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah RCS always has been an embrace extend extinguish thing. The carriers were super pissed to lose their SMS revenue to WhatsApp and iMessage so they came up with this shit to be an active partner in the loop again, and they can bill for it again. Consumers didn't fall for that and it died off. I strongly disagree with this negative characterization. RCS was a replacement protocol for the extremely outdated SMS an…

This is an extremely strange rewriting of history in which Google is some kind of altruist, moved by the plight of suffering school-children in a brief period where the rich bullying the poor (something truly shocking and unprecedented) over the color of their messages simply couldn't be tolerated any further.

Yeah what would really get me onboard with RCS if it were actually open, if I could choose which RCS provider I wanted to use. Like a privacy-driven foundation similar to Signal. Someone I could actually trust.

But that would mean that the entire protocol would have to be made open including E2EE, and that other parties besides Google and the telcos would be allowed to run servers. Those things are very unlikely to happen.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#562

Post by jupr »

wolvoleo wrote: post #448
cubefox wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah RCS always has been an embrace extend extinguish thing. The carriers were super pissed to lose their SMS revenue to WhatsApp and iMessage so they came up with this shit to be an active partner in the loop again, and they can bill for it again. Consumers didn't fall for that and it died off. I strongly disagree with this negative characterization. RCS was a replacement protocol for the extremely outdated SMS an…

RCS is not modern. E2EE is only an addon and it's not open. As others have mentioned it's not even available with interoperation. And it was really invented by carriers for exactly that purpose: To regain SMS/MMS revenue. But at this point here in Europe SMS usage between people had vanished anyway (except for spam and poor 2FA implementations) And the social problems are not a technology problem, it's more a result…

iMessage isn't a thing in Europe?

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#563

Post by Peanuts99 »

saintfire wrote: post #95
gonzalohm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google authenticator implements the standard OTP which lots of apps (including keepass) should support. Microsoft uses their own propietary crap

I use a basic OTP password instead of Microsoft's ironically less secure (see SMS as 2FA) with my work MS account. Perhaps your org disabled it but it is definitely something a Microsoft account can do.

Proper Microsoft authenticator setup is more secure than OTP because it's pushed based and doesn't allow users to copy paste their OTP codes into phishing sites. Google also prefer push based MFA for this reason.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#564

Post by dvdkon »

Markoff wrote: post #297
flaburgan wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic Maps has been forked to CoMaps as a community managed project btw

TIL there has been some drama about Organic Maps, what is the difference between OM and CoMaps? Left from Maps.me to OM because of drama and intrusive features, do I need to leave OM for CM? edit: seems CM shouldnt have that annoying gift icon edit 2: CoMaps doesn't display (colored) hiking trails, so completely useless compared to Organic Maps, also can't even display tram lines after tapping on tram stop in Prague

Please don't declare software "completely useless" just because it lacks a feature you need.

I personally also need hiking trails on my map, but I know people who don't and happily use CoMaps.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#565

Post by okanat »

skorp01 wrote: post #559
fsflover wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you may be interested in GNU/Linux phones, which do not rely on Google in any way.

I have bad news; Do you know who is a major contributor to the Linux kernel? (It's Google)

And many libraries in GNU/Linux desktops too..

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#566

Post by okanat »

prmoustache wrote: post #399
okanat wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because AOSP is open source and can be built without Google Play running at the background unlike the other alternative: giving up privacy to yet another big tech Apple. Graphene adds many privacy features on top of regular AOSP. But it only works on phones that has good security features that are not woefully outdated or completely closed-off. Google has complete control over Pixel supply chain and they can make the…

Opensource or not if someone says they hate so much google they do not want to touch a google device with a 10ft pole even if they didn't gave money or personal data to google to access it, I don't see how that person can accept running code from them.

Because average people are not just zealot crazies. Compromises and spectrums exist.

AOSP is still the best Linux-based environment for consumer use case from many aspects. It handles hardware better than GNU-based desktops, it is more secure, it supports things like HiDPI screens better and it has a stable API to write applications against and many people and organizations did so (you can still use Android 4 apps).

AOSP has strong Google influence but it is possible to use it without feeding data to Google.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#567

Post by okanat »

tom_alexander wrote: post #127
okanat wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Motorola only lets certain geographical regions to unlock bootloader, not everywhere.

They're referring to the partnership between GrapheneOS and Motorola: https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at...

I'm aware. However, it is quite possible that they will only sell Graphene phones in certain countries considering their past behavior.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#568

Post by HybridStatAnim8 »

lucb1e wrote: post #97
seabombs wrote: post #75

I had been using LineageOS + microG for many years on my Pixel 3. I upgraded to a Pixel 8 and tried out GrapheneOS and the install experience was good, but I found some odd performance quirks - apps would be slow to install and run, downloads were slow, etc. Has anyone had similar issues? Many apps that work on microG don't work in GrapheneOS without installing Google services anyway. I'm by no means across the full…

A lot of developers are lured into building in a dependency on Google services, so yes you'll need microG or, as GrapheneOS prefers, the original Google code running on your device for those apps to function. Or patch the app, like Langis does for Signal (not necessary for it to function without Google in this case, but it removes its calling out to Google's apps and services for those who don't want that). If you're…

GrapheneOS is designed for everyone, including average users. It does not require a high threat model, and the features it provides are not only useful to people with high threat models.

Contrary to popular belief, exploitation of vulnerable devices is a lot more common, and a lot easier than people pretend it is. You dont need to be targeted either, mass exploitation can, has, and will occur.

LineageOS does not have privacy, security, or usability comparable to GrapheneOS. LineageOS is missing many important features and falls behind android updates. GrapheneOS will be the far better choice in all 3 of these categories.

The features GrapheneOS provides, such as the network permission, cannot be replicated with a firewall app. The network permission properly covers all forms of network access for an app, where firewall apps do not have the ability to prevent all network communication. They are leaky.

The AGNSS servers and proxies are very, very tiny aspects of what GrapheneOS provides. You would be losing out on many more high impact privacy, security, and usability features.

Root access and an unlocked bootloader are insecure, even for low threat models. These devices are vulnerable and should not be used for any sensitive data.

LineageOS is not the better choice for any privacy, security, or usability usecases relative to GrapheneOS.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#569

Post by Uvix »

nekusar wrote: post #501
hiitsmyaccount wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean MDM work profiles. I play an IT guy at work and am a Google Workspace admin. We have it running in BYOD mode and it's actually not intrusive at all. The most sensitive data you can see as an admin is what apps are installed in the work profile, the phone's make + model, and the version of Android. Nothing like location, charge level, or anything outside of the work profile. I'm fine with running it on my…

How to say "I work for a company too cheapass to provide work devices". Its all fun and games until the company gets hit with a lawsuit and discovery hits your phone and ALL your accounts, corporate and personal.

Some people don’t want to carry two devices and prefer BYOD, even if the company offers a work phone.

Re: GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

#570

Post by wolvoleo »

jupr wrote: post #562
wolvoleo wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RCS is not modern. E2EE is only an addon and it's not open. As others have mentioned it's not even available with interoperation. And it was really invented by carriers for exactly that purpose: To regain SMS/MMS revenue. But at this point here in Europe SMS usage between people had vanished anyway (except for spam and poor 2FA implementations) And the social problems are not a technology problem, it's more a result…

iMessage isn't a thing in Europe?

No not really. It's technically available but nobody uses it. Everyone is on WhatsApp. Even companies. I never get messages from contacts on SMS either (so it's not going through fallback). I think it's because iOS just isn't really that widely used here. Not used enough to have critical mass for an iOS-only messaging service.

At least in the countries I deal with in Europe (Netherlands, Spain, France, Ireland). Perhaps in UK the adoption is higher because they have more money and thus iOS usage is higher. But everyone I know is on either WhatsApp or Telegram (and sometimes but very rarely Signal). Also we are much more socially disconnected from the UK since brexit.

As a bit of added info, the reason SMS is so hated here is because providers offered paid SMS services. You could sign up for e.g. daily weather reports and you got billed for it on your phone bill. It could be up to 1-2 euro per SMS. Some countries even up to 5 as far as I remember. This service was abused a LOT by scammers who just signed people up without consent and refused to remove them. The carriers did almost nothing against this because they were raking in the euros. This caused people to be very wary of SMS. Most people I know never use it anymore. They get worried when they receive something because they are afraid they'll get charged. Which can really add up if they do it from the start of your billing cycle. So its use as iMessage fallback is also pretty nonexistent.

So this is also why I am so wary of RCS and the carriers. They have played a deplorable role in the 2000s/early 2010s. Really cashing in hard with small bundles and insane out-of-bundle charges for SMS, the pay service scams etc. It was really their cash cow. So my trust in them is forever lost, I will never trust them to provide more than just transporting neutral bits from A to B.

It's also why I will never sign a contract with telcos and always use prepay. That way they can never take more of my money than I have in credit.

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