Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers • Hacker News Board

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#561

Post by manzanarama » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

partiallypro wrote: post #529

nicce wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is less about the media but more about the response of officials. How many boats were send to look for a single submarine? All the way from the France? When they could have been sent to Mediterranean sea as well.

There wasn't really a discrepancy in response though, and if you are lost at sea and have nothing to hang onto...you aren't going to last long. I saw someone ask why the US didn't send ships to look for migrants, well...that's a 10-day ride across the Atlantic & Mediterranean. Even surrounding countries were sometimes hours away. The average human can't tread that long without a life jacket, the average is ~2-3 hours…

The US has quite a few shops scattered around the world at all times. The 22nd, 24th, and 26th Marine Expeditionary Units patrol the Atlantic and Mediterranean.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#562

Post by frakkingcylons » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #425

seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

Good video. Some excerpts: "If you're not breaking things, you're not innovating. If you're operating in a known environment as most submersible manufacturers do, they don't break things." (8:49) "Our rule is we risk capital, we don't risk people." (9:56) "We used the same prepreg that's used on the 787." (11:15) And my favorite: "When you're outside the box, it's really hard to tell how far outside the box you reall…

> He does seem to be far outside the box now.

Very poor taste to say this now.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#563

Post by cma » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

asynchronous wrote: post #216

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I see he's got the 'Elon Musk school of thought' in regards to cutting corners in vehicles carrying people's lives and seeing safety regulations as a nuisance hindering his "visionary progress" that these pesky gray-beard engineers just can't grasp. Fucking idiot CEO, took 4 innocent people with him. Aero, naval, automotive, all have a a history written in blood, and all those rules and regulations aren't to hind…

I support the hate but don’t compare this to Elon Musk, his companies have taken more people more places safer than dozens of other competitors. Tesla is one of the safest car brands to drive, SpaceX has yet to kill or maim anyone.

The untrained consumer beta testing of FSD...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#564

Post by Alupis » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #301

AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the other souls onboard fully understood the risk of death, otherwise that isn't fair to them. To relate it to flying in an airplane, “If you take one flight a day, you would on average need to fly every day for 55,000 years before being involved in a fatal crash.” I'll take those odds. Take a deep dive in an experimental vessel with public safety concerns expressed over years, nope I'm out.

They all had to sign multi-page waivers that mention "death" no less than three times on the first page.

> They all had to sign multi-page waivers that mention "death" no less than three times on the first page.

You sign similar waivers for all kinds of benign things - including amusement park tickets, concerts, skateboard parks, etc.

I have a feeling the safety of this contraption was grossly oversold to the passengers...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#565

Post by boeingUH60 » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

j-a-a-p wrote: post #279

Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

Also the coastguards were tripping over each other to save these 5 men, while for the refugees the speculation is if the coastguard contributed to the wrecking.

What compare the U.S Coast Guard’s actions with that of the Greek Coast Guard? They are two distinct and unrelated organizations.

And from what I’ve read about, the U.S Coast Guard are awesome folks that’ll trip over each other to save anyone if they can..

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#566

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #425

seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

Good video. Some excerpts: "If you're not breaking things, you're not innovating. If you're operating in a known environment as most submersible manufacturers do, they don't break things." (8:49) "Our rule is we risk capital, we don't risk people." (9:56) "We used the same prepreg that's used on the 787." (11:15) And my favorite: "When you're outside the box, it's really hard to tell how far outside the box you reall…

The 787 preprec is actually pretty good. At holding a pressure delta <1 bar on the inside...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#567

Post by michaelt » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

itake wrote: post #457

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the migrant boat disaster is horrible. But I was more interested in this missing sub because it was a bit mysterious what happened to it initially. Then it all comes out how badly built it is, how it's a death trap, etc. It's just more interesting personally. It doesn't mean it's worse than the migrant boat, it's just more interesting and I'd rather read about it. Mysterious cases always get more traction on…

Do you have any details about why it was a death trap? I watched one video that complained about off the shelf parts being used, but the two examples was an RV light (not safety related) and the gaming controller (which they had multiple back ups). They also claimed to have been reviewed by Boeing and University of Washington. There was 7 different mechanisms that could force a return. Some of those were purely mecha…

The Wikipedia article is extremely detailed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OceanGate

Some highlights include:

* Design inspired by the "DeepFlight Challenger" - but DeepFlight said their craft was only rated for one dive, and weakens with each cycle, and could not be used for five dives.

* Hull designed by subcontract manufacturer in 6 weeks - scarcely enough time to do much testing.

* In an early dive the CEO performed solo, lost contact with the surface ship for approximately one hour

* While diving with a journalist, lost contact with the support vessel for 5 hours.

* It was impossible to open the sub from inside (admittedly, this is only relevant if you first manage to ascend to the surface)

* Hull started showing showing signs of cyclic fatigue in January 2020 (they got it repaired)

* Assembly and testing procedures so sloppy they managed to attempt a dive with a thruster installed the wrong way around.

* Employee called for a stronger front window, and nondestructive testing of the hull. Company fired him and sued him.

* CEO on record as saying ship safety laws "needlessly prioritized passenger safety over commercial innovation" and that "At some point, safety just is pure waste. I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed."

* Couldn't get certified by a ship classification society, claimed that was OK because most marine accidents are operator error not mechanical failure; and the standards didn't give them adequate credit for their corporate culture of safety.

The other thing that indicates it was a deathtrap is the deaths.

With that said, personally I support the right of people to expose themselves to the risk of death in search of adventure. Normal folks can buy motorbikes and quadbikes, millionaires can buy cessnas, why shouldn't billionaires have deadly entertainment options befitting their wealth?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#568

Post by rsynnott » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

carabiner wrote: post #495

bambax wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good video. Some excerpts: "If you're not breaking things, you're not innovating. If you're operating in a known environment as most submersible manufacturers do, they don't break things." (8:49) "Our rule is we risk capital, we don't risk people." (9:56) "We used the same prepreg that's used on the 787." (11:15) And my favorite: "When you're outside the box, it's really hard to tell how far outside the box you reall…

> It's a strong indication of bullshit -- name dropping that doesn't have anything to do with the subject matter It means you're using a material that's been vetted over decades in life-critical applications in harsh conditions by expert engineers all over the world. Aerospace aluminums today are derived from Japanese alloys invented in WW2 and were a major innovation in metal aircraft. It's much more expensive than…

In this context, he was talking about carbon fibre, not aluminium (though, aluminium would also be a less than ideal material to make a deep-water submersible out of).

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#569

Post by ReptileMan » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

InexSquirrel wrote: post #479

mytailorisrich wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean. A migrants boat. Most of the people crossing the Med into Europe are economic migrants but in the past decade it has become known that claiming asylum on arrival (or at least if caught) is a good strategy so many do.

Interesting point, I wasn't aware of the distinction between economic migrant and refugee > Refugee immigrants are unable or unwilling to return home for fear or threat of prosecution, and thus, must make a life in the country that gives them refuge. Economic immigrants, on the other hand, are free from this constraint and can return home whenever they so desire.[1] But then further clarification of the term 'economi…

Since the only country at war that borders EU is Ukraine I don't think that people from any other countries could be considered refugees.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#570

Post by jameslk » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

Tragic result, just as it were for the Titanic. The parallels between the hubris of what was said about each craft's capabilities, to the outcomes of blindly believing in it, down to even the irony in the names "Titanic" and "Titan" seems sadly poetic. Rest in peace.