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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#371

Post by fsloth »

bunga-bunga wrote: post #318

The conversation around this event is incredible. Why can’t I do something risky and deal with the consequences myself (i.e. death)? I want to climb K2 alone in shorts, don’t cry my loss. I’ll die doing what I love.

The problem was they sold tourist trips in this deathtrap. Sure, do whatever you want by yourself, if it hurts only you. Selling this as a product, by tapping into the existing market for adventure tourism was borderline evil. The difference with this and generic adventure tourism is that this was about as survivable (I guess) as a round of Russian roulette.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#372

Post by nomel »

kitd wrote: post #227
Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

I think the idea of being trapped in a confined space kilometers under the sea has a visceral effect on the imagination that a boat voyage on the surface doesn't, regardless of how tragic the outcome is in both events. It pokes and prods many of our deep phobias. Similar stories like the Thai boys trapped in the cave, or the Chilean miners, had a similar effect. A bit like "Snakes on a plane". Again, trapped with you…

Yes, it's good entertainment, for many.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#373

Post by tacker2000 »

Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

This is unrelated to the article and can also be seen as political flamebait.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#374

Post by bradstewart »

bilekas wrote: post #357

What really bothers me about the coverage of this, and I'm not totally anti media etc, was that nobody mentioned on the fact that the tracking system lost contact also. It was only mentioned that the communications was lost, if there had of been media mentioning that the tracking device also lost contact, I think a lot of people would have recognised straight await that it was a critical collapse. No deep gauge devic…

Power loss?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#375

Post by Lukas_Skywalker »

RajT88 wrote: post #34
danso wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's little other explanation for why contact would be abruptly lost. The company said that the sub has multiple forms of ballast, including systems that could be activated manually, and ties that were designed to dissolve after 20+ hours in seawater, allowing the sub to rise even if the crew were unconscious. > The latter is more probable to me as it has never been tested under water for more than a few hours at…

> There's little other explanation for why contact would be abruptly lost. You'd think - but past passengers have said that when they dove they lost contact as well. Mutiple trip passengers said they lost contact every time. So multiple anecdotes of loss of contact with the same vehicle without an implosion. The jankiness of this operation continues to be discovered bit by bit. ETA: https://abcnews.go.com/US/former-t…

This is consistent with this video of a trip. Comms were lost, and the pilot even jettisoned some of the ballast in order to resurface. They continued the descent later though.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RAncVNaw5N0

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#376

Post by js2 »

deanc wrote: post #305
lamontcg wrote: post #58

Well that's better than slowly asphyxiating or dying of hypothermia, probably didn't even know what hit them.

Can someone walk me through what would have happened, physically, to a human body in the moment this happened. I’m curious. Similar to wondering what happens to people in space.

In outer space, you pass out in about 15 seconds from lack of O2 to the brain, then your heart stops and eventually you freeze. NASA has done the experiments:

> Chimpanzees can withstand even longer exposures. In a pair of papers from NASA in 1965 and 1967, researchers found that chimpanzees could survive up to 3.5 minutes in near-vacuum conditions with no apparent cognitive defects, as measured by complex tasks months later. One chimp that was exposed for three minutes, however, showed lasting behavioral changes. Another died shortly after exposure, likely due to cardiac arrest.

Then there was this oops:

> In 1965 a technician inside a vacuum chamber at Johnson Space Center in Houston accidentally depressurized his space suit by disrupting a hose. After 12 to 15 seconds he lost consciousness. He regained it at 27 seconds, after his suit was repressurized to about half that of sea level. The man reported that his last memory before blacking out was of the moisture on his tongue beginning to boil as well as a loss of taste sensation that lingered for four days following the accident, but he was otherwise unharmed.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space...

Dying in a submarine would be very different. The pressure differential in space is a single atmosphere. Water increases by about one atmosphere every 33 feet. At Titanic's depth it's ~ 368 atmospheres of pressure. Reddit discussion from 3 years ago:

https://old.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/gy1wc6/what_exa...

> The collapse of a submarine pressure hull happens quick, just 37 milliseconds in the case of the Scorpion. The incoming water had a velocity of about 2,000 mph. [...] Over such small time scales, there is no time for the water or the steel hull to absorb any heat from the rapidly compressing air inside of the submarine. Because no heat is transferred from the air to the water or hull, the compression is adiabatic. [...] The collapse halted when the air pressure was approximately equal to the water pressure at 1,530 feet, which is 4,630,000 Pa. [...] 1,122°F.

That was at 1,530 feet.

Contact was lost with the Titan at 1 hour and 45 minutes into its dive. A typical dive to the bottom took it 3 hours. So it was likely at least halfway to the bottom (6000 feet). Its implosion would have involved even more spectacular forces.

They were dead before they knew what happened, incinerated and pulverized. There are no bodies to recover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Titan_submersible_inciden...

See "Why the USS SCORPION (SSN 589) Was Lost 50 years Ago"

https://www.iusscaa.org/articles/brucerule/scorpion_loss_50y...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#377

Post by stronglikedan »

hawk_ wrote: post #358
vsareto wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real-world training for the newbies, exercise for the journeymen, and teaching moments for the experts. That alone is worth my tax dollars for keeping a robust search and rescue force. At least some of the CEO's estate should go to paying for it, but pay out to victims' families first.

Yes I get the training aspect. My point was around charging them for this. There are other such rescue missions where our brave men and women risk their lives because of reckless behavior of some. We should at least have such reckless actors take a bigger burden where possible.

It's my understanding that in rescue missions where the targets don't pay with their lives, they end up paying monetarily afterwards.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#378

Post by spuz »

ak_111 wrote: post #189
cpleppert wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immediate implosion if a far more likely explanation because give that we knew it imploded the most likely time would be immediately after the pressure vessel reached maximum or near maximum stress and it failed. The time actually is not the biggest factor; it is the number of cycles the pressure vessel has endured. An implosion after a relatively low number of cycles is consistent with past incidents with pressuriza…

The most puzzling aspect, from what I understand from the experts, if it imploded at time and depth you are suggesting it would have been very likely to be registered by at least the controlling ship due to the noise. As you highlighted the sub is pretty large, imploding in a millisecond causes huge effects in the surroundings. So saying it got lost and imploded after a few days solves two problems. Explains why ther…

> Explains why there was no implosion noise originally,

We don't know that. There's a chance a noise was recorded but it wasn't made public in order not to compromise rescue attempts.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#379

Post by stef25 »

lm28469 wrote: post #274
Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

> And of course the average person here is probably a lot closer to taking a holiday trip in a submersible than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean. My opinion is the complete opposite, I think it has more coverage because it's a feel good event for 90% of the world who absolutely despise rich fucks in that specific part of the dumb X rich venn diagram I haven't seen a single post about how sad the sub…

It's not so much stupidity as knowingly embarking on a dangerous adventure for the purpose of fun, basically.

Someone who took the trip before said they had to sign a waver which mentioned death multiple times. It's like climbing Everest, walking to the north pole, commercial space flights, base jumping etc.

The med disaster was people embarking on a dangerous "adventure" out of what they perceived as being a necessity.

Of course all lives should be regarded as being equal.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#380

Post by Philip-J-Fry »

Certhas wrote: post #187

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people. [1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot cl…

I think the migrant boat disaster is horrible. But I was more interested in this missing sub because it was a bit mysterious what happened to it initially. Then it all comes out how badly built it is, how it's a death trap, etc. It's just more interesting personally. It doesn't mean it's worse than the migrant boat, it's just more interesting and I'd rather read about it.

Mysterious cases always get more traction on social media too. There was an instance in the UK where a woman went missing near a river. People were speculating for weeks about what had happened. They would travel to the location and try and be detectives. It's was insane. People said it was because she was a white woman, but I don't think it's that. It's just the mystery of not knowing what happened and a body not being found straight away after divers searched the area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Nicola_Bulley

Same goes for the sub. It's not because it was full of billionaires. It was because it was from a company infamous for cutting corners and people wanting confirmation that it did in fact implode. It also just boggles the mind why people who are so wealthy would get in something so shoddily put together. They have the money to fund a whole expedition like James Cameron did, but they'd rather increase the risk of death by an order of magnitude.

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