Live data from Hacker News

Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

bbc.co.uk

561–570 of 1001 posts

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#561
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think things are pretty clear cut, if you want to start a service to obviously harbor fascist user-driven content, then yes, prepare to be cut off from the mainstream vendors. DailyStormer and Parler are explicitly those types of services. It is a bit disingenuous to suggest that because Parler is down, "mom and pop" websites with comment section attached now need to lawyer up.

> It is a bit disingenuous to suggest that because Parler is down, "mom and pop" websites with comment section attached now need to lawyer up. This is definitely a straw-man, but at the same time, if your website hosts user-supplied content and you don't have a rock-solid strategy for moderating it, then yeah you probably should be worried. (Though the spammers will probably take down your site long before AWS...)

No, the lesson of Parler is not that you need to have

> ... a rock-solid strategy for moderating ...

The lesson is you need to have a rock-solid `policy` that content which advocates violence is impermissible.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#562
post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

> You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this to happen.

I fail to see how Parler should be expected to be responsible for the behavior of some users that share a demographic and political alignment with a group that stormed the Capitol. Was the planning for it done via Parler? Was it not Twitter where the announcement by Trump actually happened?

The bar is already low my friend. This is nothing but an excuse for big tech to wield its trust effect to shut down potential competitors.

If big tech believes that social media companies should be held accountable for its users' actions, then they should support the repeal of section 230, which would effectively have the same effect, except with the additional protections under the justice system. Why is it suddenly okay when big tech does the same without due process?

Rules for thee, not for me.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#563
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech and the First Amendment are not the same thing. Free speech is a moral principle/ideal that exists independently of the US Constitution. The First Amendment guarantees a certain form of free speech in the United States. Private-sector censorship / restriction of speech is not in violation of the First Amendment. However, it may still amount to a restriction on free speech.

Fair, but in this case we're talking about a US company hosting another US company's data, so I think talking about free speech in the context of the First Amendment is reasonable.

The distinction between private and public sphere is not completely clear.

Let us say that a politician calls Mark Zuckerberg and asks him nicely to squish certain people, and MZ complies. Is that a First Amendment issue or not?

Or, let us say that a politician calls Mark Zuckerberg and offers him some concrete support (in an anti-trust case or taxation matters) for squishing certain people, and MZ takes up the offer. Is that a First Amendment issue or not?

The trouble with both scenarios is that they are certainly possible and hard to prove or disprove. That is one of the reasons why concentration of power in a few hands (even private ones) may translate into bad politics.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#564
post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

It appears there is a business opportunity to (re)create infrastructure for use by companies/individuals that have been banned from the mainstream platforms. I'm sure such a platform would be despised by many in the mainstream, and most mainstream companies would not consider using them because customers would boycott them if they did. But for companies whose customers are primarily on the right, the cost/benefit cou…

I've been kicking around how to do something like that because you need to consider all the layers.

On the app side, you need neutral phones/devices and the app distribution to get apps out there.

On the hosting side, you need the hosting itself (cloud or colo), the DNS and registrars, the SSL to secure it, SMS or emails for verification & resets, and probably a few others.

On the financial side, you need payment processing and the banking system behind it. That's one of the hardest because even if you can handle it, your customers have to be able to send you money from their bank.

All of those (and other components) have been cut off/disrupted for various organizations in the last year or two.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#565
post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

These companies are sucking up to their new democratic overloads so make sure you do not anger them.

Taliban have a twitter account, Ex PM of Malasia have openly justified Paris beheading, Iran's supremo calls for Jew genocide, and last but not the least China calls their Uighur detention camps as "reeducation" with zero consequences.

So yes plan if you want but cost of executing the plan might be high enough to put you out of business.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#566

All I’m going to say is that I’m all for free speech and setting fair rules for everyone to play by (ie regulation), but looking at the examples provided in the buzzfeed articles this is beyond simple free speech. I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech but there are clear threats being made on the platform. If Parler doesn’t want to do any content regula…

> the left trying to shut down free speech People really have no idea what the "left" even is anymore do they? I was once down voted here for mentioning that the NYTimes is not an extreme left wing publication. The NYTimes is a centrist liberal publication that is widely reviled by anyone on the left. It's amazing to me that the media (not just Fox-news and co) has constructed this bizarre bogey-man of the left as so…

> However, equally surprising to me, is the number of pro-big tech company HN people who are suddenly deeply concerned about unchecked corporate power.

I think its because the ideal vision of people who like minimal regulation is that they don't really think of mega-rich monoliths that have a direct impact on how an entire country chooses to consume its information. At least for me, I was one one of the annoying "but they're a private business" people until my optics shifted from viewing the issue as someone with an entrepreneurial mindset to someone who sees power concentrating and now being flexed by a small collection of mega-rich monolithic advertising companies that also happen to be collected in the same geopolitical region and possibly have an ideological bias.

In other words I reconsidered my principles in light of new information--my posting history here even shows this evolution. FAATG's decisions about how to handle what happened at the Capitol have actually scared the hell out of me, even more so than if the protesters/rioters/insurrectionists had actually succeeded in doing any of the wild shit people keep saying they intended to do. Those companies collectively own the most effective ways to communicate with others as well as almost complete control on the supply chain to create new competitors. I don't want to live in a world where that power exists in the hands of anyone, especially one that is willing to take political action and whose executives and employees vote and donate for one party.

> Right-wingers (conservatives haven't existed for decades now) aren't political because they don't have a value system at all. It's just confused rage at a world they don't understand and they feel is crushing them.

In the same post you lament people not knowing what the "left" is, you dismiss the right entirely as being comprised of nothing but valueless curmudgeons. This isn't meant to be a personal attack, I just want to point out the bias here in a fairly lazy jab at at least half the US since I've seen it a lot here the last few days. The right (and conservatives) do actually have a more coherent ideological standpoints than you assert, and I suggest digging into what they're saying. It'll be important now more than ever as we in Big Tech figure out how to deal with the massive class of people we've just alienated.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the parler content legal? "Amazon Web Services suspended Parler from its web hosting services... citing a letter it had obtained that mentions 98 examples of Parler posts that "encourage and incite violence." Don't forget that Amazon also has legal liability for hosting and distributing illegal content. Amazon is not a monopoly -- the mitigation for AWS being able to cut off your business is to architect your app…

"legal" in a democracy is something that only a court can decide. I don't know what was Parler's size, but in any website with millions of visitors a handful will post aweful things each day. Were those 98 posts posted by the same user? Did anyone report them and Parler refused to take them down? Were they popular or downvoted with few views?

And it is being decided. This is how that looks. Parler has sued Amazon, and Amazon will presumably respond. Expecting Amazon to sue Parler to show that it has the right to drop it just isn't realistic. IANAL, but I can't imagine how Amazon could show that it had standing in that situation.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#568
post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They needed 300-500 servers according to the CEO. There isn't much choice in the market when it comes to that kind of need, specially when you need to be hosted in the US because you're a political website. Imagine if they were hosted in Russia instead, they would have lost all their credibility.

Of course there is! There are at least hundreds of hosting companies that can provide that as a service, and of course they can just buy their own servers. Nobody is obliged to make it easy for them to run their site.

A 24 hour notice off AWS is more than just "not make it easy". It is a loud and clear political message.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#569
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>98 examples of Parler posts that "encourage and incite violence." Just imagine how much that would be in Facebook numbers? I think we can block Facebook too, no?

Does Facebook have a moderation policy in place that will remove these posts? Does Parler?

>Does Parler

That's not the point, i'm ~sure that illegal stuff is removed from parler too, and if not that's the Justice who should make the rules and NOT Amazon...like you know Facebook just made those moderation's after a justice ruling.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#570

This is a weird case of private companies getting together and voluntarily enforcing the supremecy of the state. I'm sure it's happened before, but probably not in situations we'd like to emulate. Insurrection is bad, but the possibility of insurrection is good. When any possibility of insurrection is crushed, for everyone now and in the future (not just insurrectionists), that sounds like it won't end well for the p…

It's amusing that people are simultaneously complaining that tech companies are censoring the president of the US and "enforcing the supremacy of the state" at the same time. True "deep state" conspiracy material. After four years of running the country, they are still underdogs.

The president is not the government; he's one part of it. The insurrectionists were attacking the rest of it.

Very wrong, in my opinion. But I'm not sure that I want to completely remove the possibility of anyone organizing to do so in the future.

To be clear, I think insurrection is nearly always bad, but keeping some faint possibility around is not bad.

Post reply on HN