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Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

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Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#551
post #205

How much does it cost to run these? I see mentions of Claude and I assume all of these tools connect to a third party LLM api. I wish these could be run locally too.

You can run openclaw locally against ollama if you want. But the models that are distilled/quantized enough to run on consumer hardware can have considerably poorer quality than full models.

Also more vulnerable to prompt injection than the frontier models, which are still vulnerable, but less so.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#552

I wonder how the internet would have been different if claws had existed beforehand. I keep thinking something simpler like Gopher (an early 90's web protocol) might have been sufficient / optimal, with little need to evolve into HTML or REST since the agents might be better able to navigate step-by-step menus and questionnaires, rather than RPCs meant to support GUIs and apps, especially for LLMs with smaller contex…

This is the future we need to make happen. I would love to subscribe to / pay for service that are just APIs. Then have my agent organize them how I want. Imagine youtube, gmail, hacker news, chase bank, whatsapp, the electric company all being just apis. You can interact how you want. The agent can display the content the way you choose. Incumbent companies will fight tooth and nail to avoid this future. Because it'…

I don't exactly mean APIs. (We largely have that with REST). I mean a Gopher-like protocol that's more menu based, and question-response based, than API-based.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#553
post #310

Are these things actually useful or do we have an epidemic of loneliness and a deep need for vanity AI happening? I say this because I can’t bring myself to finding a use case for it other than a toy that gets boring fast. One example in some repos around scheduling capabilities mentions “open these things and summarize them for me” this feels like spam and noise not value. A while back we had a trending tweet about…

I don't have a Claw running right now and I wish I did. I want to start archiving the livestream from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfGL7A2YgUY - YouTube only provide access to the last 12 hours. If I had a Claw on a 24/7 machine somewhere I could message it and say "permanent archive this stream" and it would figure it out and do it.

I made a basic "claw starter" that you could try. You can progressively go deeper. It starts with just a little "private data" folder that you scaffold and ask the agent to setup the SOUL and stuff, and then you can optionally add in the few builtin skills, or have your assistant start the scheduler/gateway thing if you want to talk to it over telegram.

If you've been shy with using openclaw, give this a try!

https://github.com/kzahel/claw-starter

[I also created https://yepanywhere.com/ - kind of the same philosophy - no custom harnesses, re-use claude/codex session history]

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#554
post #292

So what is a "claw" exactly? An ai that you let loose on your email etc? And we run it in a container and use a local llm for "safety" but it has access to all our data and the web?

It's a new, dangerous and wildly popular shape of what I've in the past called a "personal digital assistant" - usually while writing about how hard it is to secure them from prompt injection attacks. The term is in the process of being defined right now, but I think the key characteristics may be: - Used by an individual. People have their own Claw (or Claws). - Has access to a terminal that lets it write code and r…

Any suggestions for a specific claw to run? I tried OpenClaw in Docker (with the help of your blog post, thanks) but found it way too wasteful on tokens/expensive. Apparently there's a ton of tweaks to reduce spent by doing things like offloading heartbeat to a local Ollama model, but was looking for something more... put together/already thought through.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#555

I wonder how the internet would have been different if claws had existed beforehand. I keep thinking something simpler like Gopher (an early 90's web protocol) might have been sufficient / optimal, with little need to evolve into HTML or REST since the agents might be better able to navigate step-by-step menus and questionnaires, rather than RPCs meant to support GUIs and apps, especially for LLMs with smaller contex…

Any website could in theory provide api access. But websites do not want this in general: remember google search api? Agents will run into similar restrictions for some cases as apis. It is not a technical problem imo, but an incentives one.

The rules have changed though. They blocked api access because it helped competitors more than end users. With claws, end users are going to be the ones demanding it.

I think it means front-end will be a dead end in a year or two.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#557
post #538

One safety pattern I’m baking into CLI tools meant for agents: anytime an agent could do something very bad, like email blast too many people, CLI tools now require a one-time password The tool tells the agent to ask the user for it, and the agent cannot proceed without it. The instructions from the tool show an all caps message explaining the risk and telling the agent that they must prompt the user for the OTP I ha…

Now we do computing like we play Sim City: sketching fuzzy plans and hoping those little creatures behave the way we thought they might. All the beauty and guarantees offered by a system obeying strict and predictable rules goes down the drain, because life's so boring, apparently.

We spent a ton of time removing subjectivity from this field… only to forcefully shove it in and punish it for giving repeatable objective responses. Wild.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#558
post #112
post #99

The current hype around agentic workflows completely glosses over the fundamental security flaw in their architecture: unconstrained execution boundaries. Tools that eagerly load context and grant monolithic LLMs unrestricted shell access are trivial to compromise via indirect prompt injection. If an agent is curling untrusted data while holding access to sensitive data or already has sensitive data loaded into its c…

I think this is basically obvious to anyone using one of these but they're just they like the utility trade off like sure it may leak and exfiltrate everything somewhere but the utility of these tools is enough where they just deal with that risk.

It feels to me there are plenty of people running these because "just trust the AI bro" who are one hallucination away from having their entire bank account emptied.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#559

I don't think AI will kill software engineering anytime soon, though I wonder if claws will largely kill the need for frontend specialists.

And will there be a corresponding specialty that optimizes your "website" for claws to navigate. (Beyond just providing API access)

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#560

I don't think AI will kill software engineering anytime soon, though I wonder if claws will largely kill the need for frontend specialists.

To clarify, you mean that we're entering a post-HTML world, correct? As in, why spend effort on the aesthetics if a human will never see it, correct?

Because that is also my worry; a post-HTML and perhaps even a POST-API world....

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