Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts • Hacker News Board

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#551

Post by throwawaaarrgh » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:18 PM UTC

ravensfan69 wrote: post #139

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I…

You don't need Ra's al Ghul to build transit, improve educative, open more small businesses and start more after school and job training programs. People turn to crime because they don't have other options. And even with those things in place, it will take decades to un-learn the behaviors people learn in a straight up survival/war zone. We have to reckon with reality and buckle down for very long periods of hard work, or it really won't improve.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#552

Post by throwawaaarrgh » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:23 PM UTC

strix_varius wrote: post #527

elif wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my small neighborhood there is a group of 4 teenagers who have stolen probably a dozen kias. They drive them for 20 minutes, total them for a tik tok, and walk away with immunity. They have been arrested, charged, and released at least 3 times. One of my neighbors has a recent kia that is not susceptible to these hacks, and 2 weeks ago witnessed these teens trying to steal her car one night. She went out and told…

"You stole a deadly vehicle and put people's lives in danger with it. Multiple times. You will be tried as an adult and the minimum sentence is 5 years." Why is this not the obvious solution? (not as if you could single-handedly enact it, of course, but why isn't the city's leadership doing so?)

This used to be the "solution", except all it did was act as a gladiator academy that turned out more hardened criminals after 5 years. Do that every year and every year you are just working a machine to create crime.

Turns out that just putting people in jail doesn't make society safer.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#553

Post by o1y32 » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:25 PM UTC

rocket_surgeron wrote: post #524

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #140

The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC. Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday

[flagged]

Back in those days crime rate was higher in every big city. Not sure what your point is.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#554

Post by phil21 » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:26 PM UTC

Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

Yes, violent people should be removed from society. Full stop. That's the point.

The tired trope that the US incarcerates so many non-violent criminals is just that, a trope. It's not based in reality. You could let out every single non-trafficking drug offense today and you wouldn't make a noticeable dent in the prison population at all. Drop that down to all non-violent offenses and it's not much better. At this point it's an outright lie when people bring this topic up, it's not simply being misinformed any longer.

The fact is US society is far more violent than many others it's compared to. There are many reasons that should be addressed, but we certainly do not have a problem of over incarceration of habitually violent criminals. Quite the opposite in fact. A very small percentage of people are responsible for the vast majority of the crime, and as a society we simply stopped caring bout their victims and let them roam free after dozens of interactions with law enforcement.

Then you have someone who is generally a decent citizen who makes a mistake and gets the entire book thrown at them - since they have something to lose and it's not politically dangerous.

This is a problem in the US. Hand-waving it away as saying American's simply want to jail everyone is silly. Live in some of these urban neighborhoods and tell me with a straight face you don't want more people in prison. You will be astounded at the people left to simply walk the streets and terrorize others. Literally everyone in the community knows who they are but nothing at all is done about it.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#555

Post by elif » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:41 PM UTC

strix_varius wrote: post #527

elif wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my small neighborhood there is a group of 4 teenagers who have stolen probably a dozen kias. They drive them for 20 minutes, total them for a tik tok, and walk away with immunity. They have been arrested, charged, and released at least 3 times. One of my neighbors has a recent kia that is not susceptible to these hacks, and 2 weeks ago witnessed these teens trying to steal her car one night. She went out and told…

"You stole a deadly vehicle and put people's lives in danger with it. Multiple times. You will be tried as an adult and the minimum sentence is 5 years." Why is this not the obvious solution? (not as if you could single-handedly enact it, of course, but why isn't the city's leadership doing so?)

I'd be fine with this.

To be honest I don't understand the laws but in my city there is a dude who has literally been charged with car vandalism 90 times, let alone all the times he's gotten away with it.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/atlanta-police-suspect-90-p...

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#556

Post by DiggyJohnson » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:42 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #536

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while. Genuine question; is that only physically? If I like causing people pain and anguish and suffering, and my weapon of choice is words, should I also be incarcerated because I hurt people intentionally? I tend towards not giving people a free pass simply because their weapon of choice is words, but (amongst other things) the US has a repu…

Sticks and stones may break my bones…

I think there is a massive difference between physical violence (and property crime) and words. What sort of words are you envisioning here?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#557

Post by smileysteve » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:47 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #526

pb7 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is voluntary work for people who have been convicted. I agree they should be paid more though.

> This is voluntary work for people who have been convicted. Except its not; the 13th amendment allows, and several states have institutionalized, involuntary servitude of prisoners. > I agree they should be paid more though. In addition to not always being voluntary, it is also not always paid at all .

Louisiana voted against banning13th amendment slavery in 2022.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#558

Post by JoeJonathan » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:49 PM UTC

ravensfan69 wrote: post #139

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I…

NGOs “keep” vagrants and criminals like livestock to terrorize law abiding citizens? This is so vague that I have no idea what you’re suggesting is actually going on.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#559

Post by jaclaz » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:55 PM UTC

doodlesdev wrote: post #368

olyjohn wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars have been this easy to steal forever. Thieves generally take your car in under 30 seconds regardless. This particular vulnerability was just one of the first to get fully documented and distributed to everybody and popularized by an algorithm.

What I understand from this specific case these models don't have an engine immobilizer AND it's very easy to turn on the ignition using a USB cable. If I understood it correctly this is easier than stealing a car in the 80s, you don't even have to smash a window, it's that bad. The United States is an exception to the rule being the only first world country that I know of to not mandate engine immobilizers (I'm sure…

It is exactly how stealing a car in the 80's was.

You need to access the vehicle (if you are good by opening the door with a lockpick or with some other non-damaging trick, otherwise breaking a window), then you force the ignition block, removing the lock cylinder, then you use something to turn the ignition on.

In the '80's you would have probably used a screwdriver, as what remained below the removed lock cylinder would have been a slot, on these particular models you could use a pair of thin nosed pliers but a USB A connector is coincidentally just the right size for the "tab" that has to be turned.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#560

Post by mindslight » Sat, May 13, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

flextheruler wrote: post #438

mindslight wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that the misguided attempt to criminalize drugs destroyed respect for the law for generations. Once you're at risk of being locked in a cage for decades for engaging in behavior that would otherwise just be called running a small business , then robbery isn't a huge leap. Especially after your industry ends up creating its own parallel justice system because the usual courts have been made…

I don’t have a problem with some drugs being state regulated and I know it would reduce violence but the harder drugs should never be state sold we already have huge issues with alcohol which is a very hard drug. Acting as if lone actors serving narcotics or prostitutes are regular small business owner is an insult to legitimate entrepreneurs

There are other ways to handle abuse and addiction besides trying to prohibit a widely-desired substance. You rightfully point out that some people have huge problems with alcohol. The solution isn't just to blanket make it illegal (with the ensuing chaos that would/did cause), but rather directly address the acute harm caused by the people with the problems.

Ultimately the reason we consider some things natural rights isn't to create some prescriptive model that we imagine as the shape an enlightened society will take. Rather it's due to the inevitable ugliness when government attempts to legislate into individual autonomy, and people react en masse. And the results of the "drug war" have most certainly been quite ugly!