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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#361

Post by mc32 »

jolux wrote: post #351
mc32 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same department of justice that continues to prosecute a case against Assange? I'm nonplussed. Boris Becker (UK), Amanda Knox (IT), speak to prison brutality (and those are well known international personages.) Ukraine: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/08/ukraine-four-... Mexico: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/mexicos-federal-prisons-a-... Spain: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-7…

I linked the DOJ and not the Equal Justice Initiative because I thought they would be less likely to be seen as partisan or politically motivated. But here’s EJI on the same issue: https://eji.org/issues/prison-conditions/ and Harvard Political Review making a similar argument to my top post (that US prisons don’t adequately rehabilitate): https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/ And since you linked…

I agree that our justice and prison systems need a recalibration to one, focus on violent crime, aggravated sexual crime, property crime, and de-emphasis on personal vice correction while also trying to guide prisoners to a better path.

At the same time, I wish to point out most other prison systems in the world are similar or worse and suspects before they become prisoners have fewer legal rights afforded them.

That said, the catch-and-release as well as the watch-and-do-nothing approach we're seeing in some places are aggravating crime and they are not doing anyone any favors, the criminals or the victims.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#362

Post by Tyrek »

mindslight wrote: post #310
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

The fundamental problem is that the misguided attempt to criminalize drugs destroyed respect for the law for generations. Once you're at risk of being locked in a cage for decades for engaging in behavior that would otherwise just be called running a small business , then robbery isn't a huge leap. Especially after your industry ends up creating its own parallel justice system because the usual courts have been made…

Yeah, locking up Elizabeth Holmes and SBF for running a small business will destroy respect for the law for generations. How dare we?!

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#363

Post by bluescrn »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296
swearwolf wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Though this is becoming an increasingly popular viewpoint in many of the American cities that are experiencing these problems right now, it’s far from universally held. 2.) The U.S. is not a monolith, so looking at the prison population of the United States as a whole doesn’t tell you about what’s going on in an individual state or city. 3.) The number of people incarcerated has a long tail. In the U.S. in partic…

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

The problem area seems to be property crime without direct violence.

It can ruin the victims life just as much as non-lethal violence (taking away a person's source of income, or transport required to keep a job, or wrecking a business they've spent many years building), but many take the 'it's only property, it's probably insured!' attitude.

And many at least see stealing from 'big nasty corporations' as relatively OK. But if people keep stealing from businesses until they close down or relocate and there's no easy shoplifting targets, will the thieves stop, or will they move on to stealing from homes?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#364

Post by hitekker »

MavisBacon wrote: post #338
aksss wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest that something rhymes in the how prosecutorial discretion and bail policies are implemented in each of these places, though my point isn’t to compare one city to the other aside from them all being examples of “one reaps what one sows” at a practical policy level.

Baltimore is one of the most entrenched cities in US on a number of levels. It’s kind of ridiculous you are comparing the hyperwoke follies of SF and Portland with the outright despair and corruption in Baltimore. We have not reaped what we have sown, we hardly have a shot

They're not the same, but speaking as someone who's been both cities, there are some interesting similarities . Both endemic corruption by a single party which uses social issues as a ploy to forestall reform. Baltimore is a poor city that has been forgotten, whereas SF is a rich city in the limelight. Baltimore's problems begin much earlier, SF's problems are relatively more recent; but the rot in both speaks to a deeper shared problem in American society.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#365

Post by throwanem »

ravensfan69 wrote: post #139

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I…

I wouldn't call Charles Village "good". I like it, but...

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#366

Post by raldi »

ineedasername wrote: post #350

So… is Apple going to be the hook in lawsuits because their phones are so desirable and easy to steal? Heck you don’t even need a screwdriver and usb cable like with the cars. I should launch a lawsuit against the contractor who built my house because even though the doors have locks a third can break in with nothing more than a rock and some willingness to maybe get cut on shattered glass

The expectation when a car is sold is that the ignition cannot be easily bypassed by an unskilled person using ordinary household items.

There is no expectation when a window is sold that it cannot be smashed with a rock.

Further details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#367

Post by [deleted] »

bluescrn wrote: post #341
Whinner wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize how easy it is to steal these cars. Look up a few videos. You rip off the plastic on the steering column, pry out the ignition cylinder and then use the A end of a usb cable to turn the exposed nub to start the car. Under 30 seconds. While there are other issues going on, this is gross negligence on Kia/Hyundai to not use an immobilizer.

It shouldn't really matter that theft is easy. If you're prepared to smash a window, you could steal from homes and businesses, not just cars. There should be a strong enough deterrent to make it uncommon. You may not be able to stop desparate people from stealing, but if kids are repeatedly stealing cars for entertainment, then problem isn't the security of the cars.

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#368

Post by doodlesdev »

olyjohn wrote: post #328
Whinner wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize how easy it is to steal these cars. Look up a few videos. You rip off the plastic on the steering column, pry out the ignition cylinder and then use the A end of a usb cable to turn the exposed nub to start the car. Under 30 seconds. While there are other issues going on, this is gross negligence on Kia/Hyundai to not use an immobilizer.

Cars have been this easy to steal forever. Thieves generally take your car in under 30 seconds regardless. This particular vulnerability was just one of the first to get fully documented and distributed to everybody and popularized by an algorithm.

What I understand from this specific case these models don't have an engine immobilizer AND it's very easy to turn on the ignition using a USB cable. If I understood it correctly this is easier than stealing a car in the 80s, you don't even have to smash a window, it's that bad.

The United States is an exception to the rule being the only first world country that I know of to not mandate engine immobilizers (I'm sure someone will be able to point an exception, but overall these are mandatory in a lot of countries for decades already).

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#369

Post by mrjin »

harimau777 wrote: post #9
alexb_ wrote: post #5

How is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.

Their cars omit the industry standard features to prevent someone from starting the car without a key. That makes the cars trivially easy to steal. When they purchase a car, a reasonable person would assume that the key works to the degree that is standard in the industry.

Can I assume what you were talking about is the immobilizer? I thought that thing is everywhere, especially in the new cars made in the last couple of years.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#370

Post by roamerz »

kevviiinn wrote: post #321
leothecool wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US is prosecuting and incarcerating broad swathes of innocent people. There's about half a million people in jail right now who haven't been convicted of a crime. Some of them are innocent, for sure.

Considering how often police lie and plant evidence, I would say a hefty number are innocent

> Considering how often police lie and plant evidence

How often is that, exactly?

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