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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

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Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#551

Post by balls187 »

0_____0 wrote: post #262
HideousKojima wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always get confused when people say they need to have people who look like them in prominent roles in order to feel welcome in a hobby/career/whatever. I'm a fan of boxing, and my favorite boxer is a black Muslim. I do some hobby-level game dev on the side, and most of my favorite devs that I look up to are Japanese. Young black men seem to disproportionately love Dragon Ball Z, with an Asian-appearing main charact…

Assuming you’re white and male: there are loads of white boxers and game devs! And you probably know some of them! Think about how men feel about traditionally femme activities which may be stigmatized for hetero men. If you see even one other straight man get their nails done at a salon it sort of implicitly opens that door to you.

Not sure about getting a manicure, but speaking as a hetero man, getting a pedicure is amazing and I recommend every person with the means to, try it once.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#552

Post by dang »

slackfan wrote: post #263
John23832 wrote: post #90

(Black man here) Two things can be true at once. I have built great things. I can stand on my own. My merits are great. I do not want to be the token employee that is trotted around for Diversity Points (tm). I do not like the diversity porn that a lot of these DEI groups get off on. That being said, I do recognize that I have benefited from these groups (at least at their most genuine). There are groups that are aim…

[flagged]

I'm afraid you're breaking the site guidelines in more than one way. Your comment crosses into personal attack by implicitly accusing the GP of lying ("you weren't there"). And you're posting ideological battle/flamebait comments not just in this thread but in other threads.

These things are not what HN is for and destroy what it is for, so we end up having to ban accounts that do them.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#553

Post by _trackno5 »

Heh, I feel the same way towards DEI: I'm from Brazil and this stupid DEI stuff keeps putting me in the "LatinX" bucket.

I freaking hate that. I'm not a freaking latino. That is a dumb denomination created by the US.

Yet I keep getting invited for dumb LatinX events as if that means anything.

I want to be recognized by the stack of excellent work I've done. Not because I happen to be from a part of the world that is poorer than yours or because you decided I need some kind of nomenclature.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#554

Post by Plasmoid »

CharlesW wrote: post #361
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh heck, let's not even address that saying "people of color" is respectful, but "colored people" is racist.

I'm assuming good faith, and that you truly don't understand the difference. I'd be curious to know if it's because you're old enough to remember when "colored" was "fine", or too young to have an understanding of the racist usage of "colored". https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-da... "While the distinctions can be complicated, the information is readily available for anyone willing to seek it…

This is genuinely one of the less helpful comments I've seen on HN.

Instead of simply saying the reason is 'X' or even providing a link to a resource that explains why. You have linked to an article that can be fairly summarized as "Educate yourself".

This is possible even less helpful than LMGTFY link.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#555

Post by naasking »

kfajdsl wrote: post #157
aliqot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up on IRC, I have very much the same experience as you but quite opposite as I experienced hardly any racism, and nobody knew my identity either. Nobody wanted to involve their personal lives or details until recently when identity and identifying became the thing.

I'm much much younger than John23832, but I definitely recognized a lot of the same in some of the gaming communities I was a part of in the mid to late 2010s. There wasn't quite as much racism (at least in the places I hung out), but there was plenty of sexism and homophobia. It wouldn't necessarily be explicit, but there were lots of offhand comments and jokes. That's how racism (and sexism, homophobia, ...) tends…

> It wouldn't necessarily be explicit, but there were lots of offhand comments and jokes. That's how racism (and sexism, homophobia, ...) tends to present itself; it's a lot more subtle than people straight up going "I hate ${group}".

Don't conflate those jokes and offhand comments with hate. You're erasing all sorts of meaningful differences between basically harmless husbands joking about their wives or differences between men and women, and Andrew Tate.

It's also a poor tactic to effect change. If you immediately group basically harmless in-group type behaviours like these with actual devastating harm, you make yourself and your objections look silly causing people to dismiss you, and it's far harder to change behaviour after calling someone a hateful bigot, than it is to ask they tone it down because a joke made someone a little uncomfortable. I think you can easily imagine the difference in defensiveness each response might elicit.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#556

Post by zamalek »

dbrueck wrote: post #523
zamalek wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All I can say is that you are unequivocally wrong. You, as a white person, have been a victim of racism? Edit: > finding common ground is the key to rooting out and overcoming things like racism How is refuting the experiences of a black person finding common ground?

> You, as a white person, have been a victim of racism? Have I been told to leave somewhere because they don't want "whiteys" there? Yes. Have I been yelled at for being a "honky"? Yes. Have I been told things like, "all white people are ___"? Yes. Have I been in a group when someone said, "don't give any to the white kid" ? Yes. Have I been threatened with violence with the sole given reason being that I am white? Y…

> Have I been told to leave somewhere [...]

Why do some black people hate white people? Because their great grandparent perished on a cotton plantation, because their friend was hunted by some white folks in a truck, because their friend was choked to death by a white policeman, because your race is targeted by disenfranchisement.

Why do some white people hate black people? Because they hate black people.

There is a substantial difference between those two, and the difference is central to the definition of racism vs. racially-charged. Someone being a vengeful asshole does not make them racist, someone being an asshole to a race in general does not (necessarily) make them racist. Racism is hating a race, it is not being angry with a race that participated in horrific acts against you and your (in some cases near) ancestors.

Is it fair that you are being held accountable for the acts of your ancestors, and other living white people? No, that isn't the claim. You find the retribution you face unfair/unkind/unjust, as you have the right to. Now imagine facing the same for merely existing. The claim is that you couldn't possibly understand the experiences of a black person. The claim is that you do kinda' have to accept the stories of black people at face value.

The claim is that the vast majority of their life is defined by racist experiences, where you have a handful of racially-charged experiences to point towards.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#558

Post by throwawayacc6 »

I love DIE because I'm a quarter Black. I leverage every DIE initiative I can, in college, in software companies, everywhere I declare myself as "Black". When I finally stroll in for the first day, the HR coordinator and others are shocked that someone as White as Bill Clinton "identifies" as Black.

And we've gone full circle: it's like I need to carry a card around to show my quadroon status because it's just unbelievable. We're back to brown paper bag tests and racial purity.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#559

Post by slavik81 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #130
John23832 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about telling people your ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation, it's about WHAT IS SAID about your ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation. The beauty of the internet is anonymity (to a certain extent), but that doesn't mean that you can't see or hear things that exclude you.

Exactly. The old saying was "The beauty of the Internet is nobody knows if you're a dog." ... except they didn't mean dog, and we never said why it might matter what you are or what other people were assuming you were absent further information.

> The beauty of the Internet is nobody knows if you're a dog

That comic meant a lot to me. When I was growing up, I found that most adults would treat me with condescension. On the internet, I could engage in conversation as an equal. Anonymity didn't change the prejudices that people held, but it did change my experience.

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