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Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

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Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#551

Post by gadflyinyoureye »

specialist wrote: post #334
rhaksw wrote: post #173

Free Speech for Me--But Not for Thee: How the American Left and Right Relentlessly Censor Each Other (1992) [1] is a good read on how we got to a point where our ability to communicate across ideologies appears to be broken in many ways. For example, in 1963 Yale disinvited George Wallace, who was popular in the deep south, as a speaker. As a result, observers were deprived of a chance to hear opposing speakers' argu…

> As a result, observers were deprived of a chance to hear opposing speakers' arguments. In 1963, was there anyone in America left unaware of George Wallace's project to preserve white supremacy? Why is a private institution obligated to signal boost a national leader who openly defies the law?

This specific institution claimed to have high academic credentials. One of the historical bonifides was the ability to hear an opposing view. It was thought that one could then argue back. Yale bouncing his presentation showed that they weren’t living up to their claimed standards.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#553

Post by layer8 »

hackerlight wrote: post #360
pessimizer wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they also need a platform to make people aware of their existence, their views, and to recast their censorship to be in their favour. The whole point of no-platforming individuals is to make a statement that their views are seen as reprehensible and to stop them from being able to air those views to an audience. The only way that this works is to exert total control of the content of all communications. Otherwi…

Quoted post unavailable.

If it’s not just or desirable, is it pertinent whether it works?

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#554

Post by okwubodu »

darawk wrote: post #548
bjourne wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you separate potential racism from cultural differences? By conducting studies where you study the effect of the race variable. This has been done many times over in multiple countries and the results have shown that colored people and racial minorities are discriminated against. But despite the vast amount of empirical data, people still refuse to believe that racial discrimination is a factor in the job ma…

People love to cite this study as an example of absolute proof of discrimination, but it isn't. There is an obvious rational non-racist explanation for the outcome in question, and it is affirmative action. A black person, a white person, and an asian person with the exact same credentials mean extremely different things in terms of absolute rather than relative competence level, as a consequence of affirmative actio…

> There is an obvious rational non-racist explanation for the outcome in question

> A black person, a white person, and an asian person with the exact same credentials mean extremely different things in terms of absolute rather than relative competence level

Say these sentences out loud.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#555

Post by hunglee2 »

hackerlight wrote: post #360
pessimizer wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they also need a platform to make people aware of their existence, their views, and to recast their censorship to be in their favour. The whole point of no-platforming individuals is to make a statement that their views are seen as reprehensible and to stop them from being able to air those views to an audience. The only way that this works is to exert total control of the content of all communications. Otherwi…

Quoted post unavailable.

this is the rather discomforting truth of it - consensus (therefore social change) is achieved through eliminating alternative views, something which can be achieved by the hammer and anvil of relentless repetition of the approved view and de-platforming / silencing of the disapproved view. It is certainly not achieved through some sort honourable battle of ideas

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#556

Post by layer8 »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #505

> In order to present research at the conference, all social psychologists are now required to submit a statement explaining 'whether and how this submission advances the equity, inclusion, and anti-racism goals of SPSP.'" What are the consequences of saying "This research does not have any DEI implications."?

In light of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33056630, probably reduced likelihood of the submission being selected.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#557

Post by darawk »

okwubodu wrote: post #554
darawk wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People love to cite this study as an example of absolute proof of discrimination, but it isn't. There is an obvious rational non-racist explanation for the outcome in question, and it is affirmative action. A black person, a white person, and an asian person with the exact same credentials mean extremely different things in terms of absolute rather than relative competence level, as a consequence of affirmative actio…

> There is an obvious rational non-racist explanation for the outcome in question > A black person, a white person, and an asian person with the exact same credentials mean extremely different things in terms of absolute rather than relative competence level Say these sentences out loud.

I have. They do not refer to the capability of the groups, only their present level. It's entirely consistent with what I said that the current differences between the groups are a consequence of historical racism and inequity.

That doesn't change the fact that the absolute level of current ability implied by the same credential differs between groups, when the credential is conferred via affirmative action.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#558

Post by janef0421 »

curioushacking wrote: post #465

My understand for how we measure systemic racism issues seems to typically be predicated on assumed outcomes. For example that if the distribution of employees race does not match the general population then there must be a systemic cause for this. What I don’t understand is why that is assumed true. If we want to encourage many different cultures to live together wouldn’t it naturally make sense that different cultu…

It's not unreasonable to think that cultural preferences might influence job roles in academia, but in a country with a strong and poorly addressed history of racism, the assumption should be that it results from discrimination. Cultural factor should only be considered if there is strong evidence for them, otherwise they would be used as a rhetorical justification for maintaining discriminatory systems.

Re: Mandated diversity statement drives Jonathan Haidt to quit academic society

#559

Post by Latty »

TrinaryWorksToo wrote: post #540
Ferrotin wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of research has been done controlling for income, adoption studies, and such, showing your words to be completely untrue.

A lot of that research is flawed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBc7qBS1Ujo

A very good video, and goes over a lot of the points I've made in this thread in good detail, I also recommend it.
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