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Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

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Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#551

Post by renewiltord »

thenaturalist wrote: post #399
solidasparagus wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it could be that Ammon was given a choice: triple profits by end of year or sell his share That seems unbelievably unlikely.

Pardon my ignorance, but what insight or experience leads you to this conclusion? Venture capital is quite the opposite of passive investing. I guess everyone on here is well aware investors are not doing it for fun but first and foremost for protecting and, ideally, multiplying their assets.

Are you in a position where you have been offered this? No founder I know has.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#552

Post by mthoms »

jki275 wrote: post #518
mthoms wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scenario: You're the boss. Your company needs to layoff one of two people in a specific role. The two employees up for termination are more or less equal in terms of performance, wages, experience, etc. You have strong evidence Employee A is unsatisfied and looking to move on. Employee B has given no indication of such. Which one do you lay off? Keep in mind that unsatisfied employees often have a detrimental effect…

we can make up hypotheticals all day long. Firing someone because they have a profile on triplebyte is just silly. I ge that you all need to justify your rage over this, but this really makes no sense. The world doesn't work the way you want to believe it does. I don't know, maybe you work somewhere that's normal, but if you want to call something toxic, that's toxic. No boss I've ever had would care less about my on…

>we can make up hypotheticals all day long.

So you're not going to point out any logical flaws in the scenario? You're not going to tell me why it's not a useful exercise? You're just going to avoid answering it because.... reasons.

> Firing someone because they have a profile on triplebyte is just silly.

Neither of the examples I gave were about firing.

>I ge that you all need to justify your rage over this, but this really makes no sense

I don't have any rage. My comment didn't express any rage. It gave two perfectly sound illustrations of why this information being public could put one at a disadvantage.

>The world doesn't work the way you want to believe it does.

Please elaborate. How does it work? And why is your experience about how it works more "correct" than the hundred of commenters here?

>I don't know, maybe you work somewhere that's normal, but if you want to call something toxic, that's toxic.

You can prove it by answering my question. What decision would a non-toxic, perfectly reasonable employer do? What would you do? I'm genuinely curious.

>No boss I've ever had would care less about my online profiles.

Same here. Aren't we lucky. Not everyone has had the same experience as evidenced by this thread.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#553

Post by ammon »

guug wrote: post #489
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with this. When I see corporate apologies I look for two things: 1. Actions speak louder than words. In this case, they are reversing what originally caused the outcry. 2. Did they look introspectively to try to really understand what made people mad in the first place. In this case I believe the CEO did. If we don't ever accept sincere apologies, then we're left with a world where there is never an i…

I look for one more thing: 3. What steps the corporation took to prevent this issue from occurring in the future. While a believe that the CEO is sorry, I can't consider the issue resolved without #3.

This is an important point, and it's something I'm thinking a lot about right now. I don't have an answer, but I want to talk to my team and make an announcement in the next few weeks.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#554

Post by didibus »

didibus wrote: post #450
Aeolun wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current position is "sorry for breaking your trust, please trust us". It's hard to find it compelling. Why is this a hard thing to do? It’s literally what everyone who ever messes something up is asking you to do. Just because someone once committed a broken build, doesn’t mean I’ll never again trust them with access. It’s argubly more like “sorry for being a moron, but I hear you. Please give us another chance…

Break the build, okay we give you a second chance, delete the database and all backups when you were hired as the DBA? You're probably going to be looking for another job.

Lol did this actually happen to more people then I'd assume? Anyone got a good: IAMA dba that deleted all our data?

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#555

Post by nirav »

Personal thoughts for ammon, hoping @dang hides me, please hide me @dang.

Ammon,

You single handedly destroyed something you created but I can relate and feel what you might be going through ATM.

It will suck and it will leave you with scars that'll be hard to come off and stick for the foreseeable future.

Eventually, You'll come out of "it realizing this decision and reversal of an easy growth idea with hard execution and be subjected to it on target vocalists on HN"

You'll do better, never stop because of internet shit.

- Be Good

(Random individual, doesn't matter)

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#556

Post by ammon »

pgodzin wrote: post #542
ammon wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was clueless. The posts I made Friday night were what I thought at the time (which was badly wrong). I was still focused on what I'd been thinking while we were developing the feature (still trying to make it "work"). What it took was a bunch of friends and mentors reaching out Saturday morning (and basically telling me I'd made a big mistake and betrayed the trust of our users). I wish I'd been able to understand…

Why did it take friends and mentors reaching out when hundreds of users had already been telling you the same on Friday?

I don't have a great answer. I guess just an entrenched/combative view of what was going on? I'm not proud of it.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#557

Post by jki275 »

mthoms wrote: post #552
jki275 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we can make up hypotheticals all day long. Firing someone because they have a profile on triplebyte is just silly. I ge that you all need to justify your rage over this, but this really makes no sense. The world doesn't work the way you want to believe it does. I don't know, maybe you work somewhere that's normal, but if you want to call something toxic, that's toxic. No boss I've ever had would care less about my on…

>we can make up hypotheticals all day long. So you're not going to point out any logical flaws in the scenario? You're not going to tell me why it's not a useful exercise? You're just going to avoid answering it because.... reasons. > Firing someone because they have a profile on triplebyte is just silly. Neither of the examples I gave were about firing. >I ge that you all need to justify your rage over this, but thi…

It's a silly hypothetical, and not worth addressing any further than I already did.

You've now admitted you're not even in the situation, so why debate for it other than internet gotcha points?

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#558

Post by dev_tty01 »

ammon wrote: post #539
sbergot wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I can accept an apology when I can somehow understand the initial intention. In the thread the CEO was answering "but stackoverflow also has public accounts!" to people explaining why this was a very bad move. The guy seemed completely clueless. It was like trying to explain that hurting people is bad to someone who has just punched you in the face. And this guy justifies his move saying that he has watched a…

I was clueless. The posts I made Friday night were what I thought at the time (which was badly wrong). I was still focused on what I'd been thinking while we were developing the feature (still trying to make it "work"). What it took was a bunch of friends and mentors reaching out Saturday morning (and basically telling me I'd made a big mistake and betrayed the trust of our users). I wish I'd been able to understand…

I think the issue is that many (most?) posters can't understand how this decision could have ever been made in the first place and how could it have been so strongly defended? It speaks to some sort of fundamental disconnect about what is acceptable handling of user data and privacy. This naturally leads to mistrust about less visible policies that are in place or will be created. What decisions have been made in the past and/or will be made in the future that are less visible to users that will similarly abuse users personal data? I think everyone appreciates the apology very much, but the unfortunate truth is that this business requires trust and this debacle has eroded that trust in a way that can't be quickly repaired by a simple mea culpa.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#559

Post by [deleted] »

mthoms wrote: post #396
MintelIE wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One continues to be taken advantage of, over and over again. Assuming good faith is not prudent when dealing with people who want your money or data. We have enough collective experience at this stage to say this conclusively. Edit: Being cynical is the new normal when dealing with companies. Especially if they have your data, or want it.

> Assuming good faith is not prudent when dealing with people who want your money or data. We have enough collective experience at this stage to say this conclusively. Well said. This ought to be taught in schools. Being slightly pedantic I'd change it to "when dealing with companies that want your money or data" rather than "people" (though I've pretty sure that's the general meaning you intended anyhow).

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#560

Post by mthoms »

MintelIE wrote: post #525
mthoms wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming good faith is not prudent when dealing with people who want your money or data. We have enough collective experience at this stage to say this conclusively. Well said. This ought to be taught in schools. Being slightly pedantic I'd change it to "when dealing with companies that want your money or data" rather than "people" (though I've pretty sure that's the general meaning you intended anyhow).

Until companies are run by AI, it's people.

What I mean is that I wouldn't apply the "don't assume good faith" principle to all people in all cases where money is exchanged. Like smaller "mom and pop" businesses, charities, or the self-employed for example. That's the only reason I made the distinction.
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