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Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

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Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#361

Post by dang »

moreaccountspls wrote: post #320
dang wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cookie jar argument is fine, plenty of people are making it. The sociopath thing is over the line - you can't attack someone like that on HN. I'm happy to see that users rightly flagged it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html p.s. While I have you, could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is also in the site guidelines. You needn't us…

Sure, I didn't realize the account thing was against the rules. I don't mind being flagged though. This is a [YC invested] company that just exhibited another example of the valley libertarian "the rules don't apply to me as long as I make money [or I get caught]" mentality. And hey, if that's what his priority is, more power to him! I personally think "sociopath" is an accurate label for that group of people, but su…

For me it falls into the IPD category (Internet Psychiatric Diagnosis), which is generally a no-go on HN. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Thanks for responding so nicely about the accounts thing.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#362

Post by solidasparagus »

trfhuhg wrote: post #323
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so he’s following the classic playbook about how to screw over your users and get away with it, but he also forgot to read and follow the part where he gets away with it? Isn’t it more likely that he just made a mistake, realized it, and apologized? You can reject the apology, of course, but it doesn’t seem like you have any evidence that it’s not genuine. In fact, the evidence you claim (“classic playbook”) yo…

Often, the driving force of such moves is not the founders, but investors: the company accepted a generous investment in past and had to sign a contract where the investor may wind up the company if the returns are low. In other words, it could be that Ammon was given a choice: triple profits by end of year or sell his share. Regarding your question. Mistakes and apologies are words from the lexicon of normal emotion…

> it could be that Ammon was given a choice: triple profits by end of year or sell his share

That seems unbelievably unlikely.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#364

Post by ratherbefuddled »

Well written apology but despite that I'd still be very concerned that a company entrusted with so much sensitive personal data can get this so wildly wrong and then also get the initial responses to the very predictable negative reaction so wrong.

Did nobody in the room speak up? Is this a culture problem too?

To have a chance at winning back trust these guys need to make deleting accounts instantly their next feature and make confidentiality the first priority in everything they do - and that means doing it not just marketing it.

They probably also need to hire someone to tell the CEO "No!" the next time if nobody else is prepared to. It seems likely there will be a next time if this one didn't set off alarm bells.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#365

Post by greenyoda »

jiveturkey wrote: post #68
alexpetralia wrote: post #14

This is a very good apology. Yes, it is possible that this is merely the perfunctory apology TripleByte's users were undoubtedly due. It is possible it is entirely inauthentic, a mere artifice for damage control from a reputationally maimed business. But it is also possible that, like all people, the CEO seriously screwed up. There were some bad premises, some bad motives, some bad confirmation bias at play here. Tha…

> It is possible it is entirely inauthentic, a mere artifice for damage control from a reputationally maimed business. I honestly don't think that matters in the slightest. One of two things happened. 1. deletion requests spiked like you wouldn't believe 2. the board caught wind of the bad feedback and forced this response. #2 i don't believe for a second. it beggars belief that the board is following day-to-day acti…

> 2. the board caught wind of the bad feedback and forced this response.

> #2 i don't believe for a second. it beggars belief that the board is following day-to-day activity and further, at the start of a holiday weekend? no. way.

I don't think it's so implausible. Remember that Triplebyte is a YCombinator company (so someone from YC probably sits on the board), and the uproar about its actions occurred on HN, YCombinator's site. I wouldn't be surprised someone who read this on HN was either (1) a partner or employee of YCombinator or (2) knew someone at YCombinator and alerted them.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#366

Post by wolfgang42 »

dang wrote: post #356
wolfgang42 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind also doing that thing where the comment is collapsed by default? I spent way too long trying to figure out what was different about this text compared to the email or the top post before I skipped down and saw your explanaion.

Ok, done.

Thanks!

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#367

Post by GhostVII »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #278
trfhuhg wrote: post #154

Nothing to see here. Ammon has tried a bold move to chase big money, used a few common tricks (release on Friday night, opt-out and other dark patterns), it didn't pan out and now he's doing damage control. When the dust settles, he'll give this idea another try. This is all from a corporate playbook, but it seems Ammon hasn't read the entire book. There's a chapter there that tells how to systematically manufacture…

Wait, so he’s following the classic playbook about how to screw over your users and get away with it, but he also forgot to read and follow the part where he gets away with it? Isn’t it more likely that he just made a mistake, realized it, and apologized? You can reject the apology, of course, but it doesn’t seem like you have any evidence that it’s not genuine. In fact, the evidence you claim (“classic playbook”) yo…

I think the reason why this seems more likely to be malice is because the CEO's initial reaction to the backlash was not to listen to and understand the feedback, but to repeatedly try and justify their actions. To go from commenting all over hacker news about how you aren't doing anything wrong, to sending out an email completely reversing your decision a couple days later, makes it seem like the apology was more motivated by trying to do damage control rather than genuinely thinking their actions were wrong.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#368

Post by ak-47 »

rammy1234 wrote: post #325
aaomidi wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I deleted my account. They probably realized they're getting a ton of account deletions and went back on it.

Probably which is mentioned in the email. “ Last Friday I lost a big chunk of that trust. ” which translates to account deletion

I also deleted my account and encouraged others to do so. I'd love to see their account metrics and to know whether the reason for the decision reversal was primarily driven by individual email responses, HN/reddit outrage, or mass account deletion.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#369

Post by cmroanirgo »

photonios wrote: post #33

I am not an active Triplebyte user, but I have an account and followed the thread(s). This e-mail (which I also got) seems like a heartfelt apology. They fucked up, realized it and turned the ship around. They listened and that's what counts for me. They listened to the negative feedback and responded to it. Some comments around here are extremely negative of the whole situation. More negative than I think they deser…

I'm like you, not actually a triplebyte customer, but have followed on hn.

> They listened and that's what counts for me.

The fact is that they didn't listen. The ceo ammon was here on hn clearly not listening and clearly not apologising.

I would surmise that it's only due to a flood of account deletion requests that he started to notice... Add this proves one thing: on triplebyte you are the commodity and not the customer.

Although it's unlikely I'd have ever used them, because of this fiasco you can be sure I'll be warning people away from the platform entirely, heartfelt apology or no.

For my view to change he'll have to do a whole lot more than one email. He needs to change his way of thinking and one email is no way of proving that it's happened.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#370

Post by frandroid »

jki275 wrote: post #230
tikthot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some comments around here are extremely negative of the whole situation. More negative than I think they deserve People would have gotten laid-off to this. The dark patterns are just cherry on top. The negativity is well deserved.

I really doubt this. If a company would lay you off because you have a profile on a jobs network, they’re really a shit company you wouldn’t want to work for anyway. Not that I agree with their actions - anything like this ought to be opt in only, but I can’t see people getting laid off. I have a profile on linked in with my boss and multiple people from my company as contacts, I’ve got profiles on multiple additiona…

> you wouldn’t want to work for anyway.

Sure, but you still have a mortgage to pay and would like to switch companies on your terms rather than on your employer's terms, right? Have enough time to find the right job you want, instead of the least-worst because you're really not comfortable with being out of work in what's looking to be a long economic crisis?

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