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What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

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Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#551

Post by sybarita »

marketingfool wrote: post #354
2rsf wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we can, that's how it works in Sweden and AFAIK in many other European countries. Tips are not expected, and are meant only for extraordinary service. The base pay is decent and so are the benefits like vacation, pension etc.

Have you been to Europe? The standard of living is below what is expected in the states. It's nice to say removing tips and adding vacation is what workers want, but how will United States workers afford premium phones and buy larger houses?

Have you been to the US? "Workers" here do not "buy larger houses", we rent tiny apartments when we can and live in our cars/streets/friends couches/wherever we can otherwise. "Premium phones" are irrelevant, the difference between a new iPhone and an Android is maybe 1 week of rent.

If you're in the US and your problems are vacation time, "buy[ing] larger houses", etc., you're not in a position to even get tips. You would be in a privileged class of educated workers with a perfectly fine quality of living.

We're talking about the average US worker. This person has never taken a vacation in their life because they've never been in a position to. They take what they can get, which in the case of the gig economy is often well below minimum wage. If they have a roof over their head it's likely only by the grace of a wealthier family member. This person works their ass off performing the unskilled labor that makes our world go round and they get treated like a criminal for it.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#552

Post by jopsen »

mjevans wrote: post #274
hocuspocus wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> relocation assistants Does this mean something completely different in the US compared to the rest of the world? How is anyone in this business being underpaid?!

They're talking about the labor for moving things, and yeah, it's a "service" job so it too is owned by someone else who takes most of the profits.

I recall the relocation agent I was setup with when hubting apartments in SF..

She was freelancing and looking forward to Obamacare -- having not had healthcare in 15 years.

I took note of that, because to me not having health insurance seemed completely unreasonable. I almost left the continent when HR tried to convince me I should trust "retroactive" insurance -- and I would get the policy after 30 days, lol.. maybe in just paranoid :)

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#553

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

pergadad wrote: post #543
swiley wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree you absolutely have to watch what you're doing and count miles and whatnot, but having the option is a powerful thing (even when you're making negative money) and I wonder if regulating it too aggressively might take that away.

Imagine all the alternative ways this valuable human time could be used. Do you really think the majority of people feel empowered and freely do this, or is it rather that they are stuck in a negative loop and can't get out. Also to highlight that currently the government is subsidising these companies by paying food stamps and Medicaid (in the case of the US), and the workers are subsidising them by taking any and a…

"Empowered" is a spectrum. Do I think the majority of gig economy drivers find their job empowering in some cosmic sense - no, probably not. But I'd certainly be much happier as a driver for Doordash than a sales clerk at Walmart, and the reasons are empowering things like "I don't have to spend 100% of my time around annoying customers" and "there's no manager who will come yell at me if I play around with my phone for a few minutes".

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#554

Post by kragen »

break_the_bank wrote: post #277
kragen wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try to compete with DoorDash using that model, you will either have to charge much higher prices than they do, or you will lose money on every transaction. Either way you will go out of business as long as DoorDash or similar companies are able to compete with you.

This assumes that door dash is able to maintain it's employees despite another employer paying hire for the same job.

Well, if the other employer existed first, you might be right. The other employer might be able to deplete the labor pool of unemployed people with cars to a sufficiently size that DoorDash wouldn't be able to get started, if there were so many people willing to pay for grocery delivery (at the higher prices the other employer charged) that they could employ all or essentially all of the potential deliverypeople. But if there were more potential deliverypeople than potential customers, including at the lower price point that DoorDash can (hic) deliver, or if DoorDash already existed and could therefore prevent the new company from breaking into this two-sided market, then no.

The reason the sequence matters is that, for DoorDash to need to raise its payments to its workers in order to keep them from running to the other employer, that other employer needs to be able to hire all of them, or at least so many that DoorDash finds its access to the labor market significantly restricted. But clearly a new entrant starting small will not be able to do that; they can only do it once they get big. But they will not be able to get big if they are charging higher prices for the same service as DoorDash.

So, no, much more reasonable assumptions are available to justify my inference.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#555

Post by swozey »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #145
swozey wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Popeyes by me has a 25 or so minute drive thru line, I've gone twice for some reason recently. I watch as people wait in line, eventually park and walk to the door and realize the doors are locked. They don't even have patrons inside the restaurant. I never considered it being due to deliveries. Both times I went was during rain and right after work. The chicken sandwich drama is over. Those workers are slammed,…

"The chicken sandwich drama is over." I had Popeye's for the first time one afternoon last week. There was a handwritten sign in the window saying they'd run out of chicken sandwiches for the day :(

Oh maybe I'm wrong then! I figured after they made it a normal item everywhere they were well stocked, I quit hearing about it!

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#556

Post by lacker »

pergadad wrote: post #541
treis wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The article points out that for many DoorDash workers, they aren't getting paid a positive sum, even if they count their time as worth zero. This just doesn't pass the smell test. It's much, much more likely that their method is flawed than it being the case that a bunch of workers pay DoorDash to work for them.

Instead of posting your personal idea that this must be wrong because it seems extreme, you could read the very lucid and clear article giving exact numbers on how they calculated this and why they are confident in this calculation.

The article says they gathered their data from a non-random sample of 200 drivers. I think the “smell test” is more accurate. Or DoorDash’s own claims, that drivers make $18 an hour.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#557

Post by ginknocab »

pgrote wrote: post #344
ginknocab wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may sit for a while. We can't see notes before accepting it, unless you're willing to gamble on penalizing yourself with their 'Completion Rating' by accepting to read notes then 'reassigning' if there's no guarantee of higher pay. The 'Completion Rating' affects your ability to either schedule at 3pm, 6 days in advance or be a 'Top Dasher' that allows you to go on the clock any time you want. In smaller markets l…

Thank you for your reply! What should I do if I want to maximize what the driver receives? My typical tip was to ensure the driver was receiving at least 25% of my order or $15, whichever is higher. Our orders are typically in the $50-$100 range since we use it primarily for dinner.

Tip $5.50(long story, they hide almost any amount over $8.50) before delivery then either tip cash or adjust the tip after. I only say adjust after because DD will usually low ball us with less of a base pay($2 instead of $3) if the tip is higher. Cash is obviously better since it's not reported on our 1099.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#558

Post by Phillipharryt »

lacker wrote: post #556
pergadad wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of posting your personal idea that this must be wrong because it seems extreme, you could read the very lucid and clear article giving exact numbers on how they calculated this and why they are confident in this calculation.

The article says they gathered their data from a non-random sample of 200 drivers. I think the “smell test” is more accurate. Or DoorDash’s own claims, that drivers make $18 an hour.

Their sampling is biased, but DoorDash muddies their own claims by saying that pay is per "active hour". It's possible they're not counting time that drivers still need to allocate towards their work, making it inaccurate. I imagine you at least have to spend time pulled over to look at and accept an order (or break the law) so even that time getting in and out of traffic is probably not counted in "active hours". Imagine working retail and your employer only counting your time actually spent at the till when they say you're paid $20 an hour. You could be doing a whole lot more work than that but they don't consider it in that calculation.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#559

Post by occamrazor »

treis wrote: post #514
dsr_ wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article points out that for many DoorDash workers, they aren't getting paid a positive sum, even if they count their time as worth zero. Look, we have the technical ability to handle millions of people as hourly workers on timescale granularities of seconds. Require these companies to treat their "contractors" as part-time employees being paid minimum wage: start paying them when they accept their first job on da…

>The article points out that for many DoorDash workers, they aren't getting paid a positive sum, even if they count their time as worth zero. This just doesn't pass the smell test. It's much, much more likely that their method is flawed than it being the case that a bunch of workers pay DoorDash to work for them.

They use the IRS 0.58$/mile tax deductible to estimate the car related costs. This is probably on the high side, especially for a small car.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#560

Post by eru »

Nursie wrote: post #334
eru wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Singapore. We don't have a minimum wage. It's a neoliberal fantasy-land, yes. Lee Kuan Yew's autobiography was called "From Third World to First" for good reason.

Might want to update your profile then, it still says London. What do we know about Singapore? It has masses and masses of public housing, so people are looked after in a way that doesn't happen in the US. The US is very keen to push this sort of thing on employers - see also health insurance. It's a different model and I would agree probably a worse one, but either way it's the state ensuring people have their basic…

Ha, Bloomberg is also no longer current.

The US healthcare-through-employer tax rebates are crazy. But politically untouchable, alas.

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