Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#551

Post by 66543throwaway » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #351

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

Using Alabama is a flawed analogy. Hong Kong has always enjoyed greater autonomy than other Chinese cities. A better analogy would be Puerto Rico citizens aggressively protesting their lack of rights electing members to congress in the federal government. Do you think the US would react the same way as China?

Waco. Ruby Ridge. Chicago MOVE bombing.

I guess it depends.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#552

Post by danShumway » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

I get what you're trying to say, but this comment is really far off of the mark. It's good to care about Chinese culture, but it's another thing entirely to elevate culture over human rights.

What does it matter what the average Chinese citizen thinks about this? By pulling the app, Apple is taking the side of an oppressive regime against Hong Kong. Whether or not 90% of Chinese citizens agree with Hong Kong is utterly irrelevant to the conversation. They're not the people being oppressed.

I don't care if the average Chinese citizen likes Hong Kong, any more than I care about whether the average Chinese citizen likes Muslims, or any more than I care about whether the average US citizen likes immigrants or LGBQT+ citizens.

The opinions of the oppressed matter, the opinions of unaffected third-party observers do not, in except that their opinions spur them to action to help the oppressed.

If 90% of the Chinese population thinks that HK is just a misbehaving tiny city that needs to be brought into line, then 90% of the Chinese population is wrong, and Apple is wrong to side with them. Human rights are not a cultural artifact, they're not decided by majority. They're recognized, not granted.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#553

Post by yazaddaruvala » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #460

glitchc wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans still think of themselves as the best in the world. If that is not manifest destiny, then what is it?

Patriotism. A noble trait that everyone should possess and covet.

Unclear if you’re sarcastic or not.

At least in North American high schools we are taught pretty thoroughly that Nationalism was the root cause of both WW1 and WW2.

I’m Canadian and while we are proud to be Canadian, Nationalism is looked at very skeptically and Nationalism for its own sake would make me think the person preaching it is uneducated.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#554

Post by 0xffff2 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

SubiculumCode wrote: post #369

0xffff2 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far no one has had to choose. If the US started sanctioning US companies that took these kinds of actions, then we'd find out as companies either reversed their decisions or fled the US.

Apple is a U.S. entity. It would cease to exist if the U.S. government chose.

And so far the U.S. government hasn't even chosen to take much less drastic measures, which was my point.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#555

Post by eeZah7Ux » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

66543throwaway wrote: post #540

apocalyptic0n3 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Huh? You just described maybe 1 in 10 Americans. We genuinely do not care about "manifest destiny" and many of us don't put much value in being American either. I'm not even sure what you mean by "skin in the game" > Let's say one day some stupid little state that you don't care about and vaguely resent decides it wants to secede,…

Didn’t Americans freak out over a few players kneeling for the anthem? Didn’t Americans freak out when Black Lives Matter protesters blocked the highway? A tactic the Hong Kong protestors are using? Didn’t Americans make fun of Occupy Wall Street?

Not all of them - you are generalizing. Not all of them - you are generalizing. Not all of them - you are generalizing.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#556

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

I find it so interesting that Apple removes an app to track police from Hong Kong, when there are any number of apps that allow people to track police, fire, ambulances, etc... still available in the American app store.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#557

Post by CrystalLangUser » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

66543throwaway wrote: post #540

apocalyptic0n3 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Huh? You just described maybe 1 in 10 Americans. We genuinely do not care about "manifest destiny" and many of us don't put much value in being American either. I'm not even sure what you mean by "skin in the game" > Let's say one day some stupid little state that you don't care about and vaguely resent decides it wants to secede,…

Didn’t Americans freak out over a few players kneeling for the anthem? Didn’t Americans freak out when Black Lives Matter protesters blocked the highway? A tactic the Hong Kong protestors are using? Didn’t Americans make fun of Occupy Wall Street?

[flagged]

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#558

Post by chongli » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

gutnor wrote: post #524

scarface74 wrote: post #437

Ben Thompson of Stratechery talks about this a lot. Apple always says they want to own the most important pieces of their products but then Tim Cook when he was COO made the decision to be completely beholden to China for their manufacturing. I hope that Apple is seriously trying to diversify their supply chain out of China. It can be done at scale - Samsung moved all of their manufacturing out of Chins.

China is a big growing market and the CCP cleverly share a huge piece of the pie with Western companies. Western Democracies are growth addict and China is their dealer. Another "problem" is that despite its corruption and autocracy, the CCP still manages to make life better for the average Chinese. On the street it is not a hopeless hell, so right now giving up some of their freedom looks like a good deal to them. S…

Another "problem" is that despite its corruption and autocracy, the CCP still manages to make life better for the average Chinese. On the street it is not a hopeless hell, so right now giving up some of their freedom looks like a good deal to them.

With the caveat that people are essentially forced to conform to the model of "average Chinese." I would conjecture that many Chinese do not know what regional, cultural, or ethnic indigenous groups they belong to because the pressure to conform to the Han majority is so great that their parents or grandparents self-censored when talking to their children.

It's also been repeated many times but it bears repeating that in Xinjiang China is attempting to erase the culture of ethnic Uighur people on a mass scale. China previously did a similar attack on Tibetan culture. This is not good. It is a terrible crime.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#559

Post by 66543throwaway » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #427

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

edit: I removed this comment. I travel in China. (HN doesnt' apparently allow me to "delete" it, so I apologize for the edit.)

The reason is because for the vast majority of Chinese, they are as likely to end up in a re-education camp as an American is to end up at a Chicago black site prison.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#560

Post by khc » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #330

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

You're ascribing motives to the Hong Kong protesters that they don't have. This is not a separatist movement, even though the Chinese government insists on characterizing it as such. Public opinion surveys in Hong Kong show the overwhelming majority of respondents aren't asking for independence. The five demands that are the crux of the current protests don't involve independence. They center on China holding up its…

This is factually correct and relevant, not sure why it's downvoted