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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

541–550 of 789 posts

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#541
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the reality for the vast majority of larger companies. Quibbling with word choice is really not a good argument.

Try canceling your NYT subscription.

The same exists in the EU, French Le Monde (NYT local equivalent) required you for a long time to send a registered letter costing 7€ and a trip to the post office to cancel your subscription.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it different from the tax you would face if you just realize your gains?

The exit tax doesn't apply to "gains", it applies to the "value of your company" which is calculated in a way that often means you will owe thousands or even millions in money you don't have, and at no time had.

Yes - the value of your company is the gain. It is the money you would have if you sold the whole thing.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#544
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is refreshing to hear. Unfortunately I can't get out because of exit tax, an unrealized capital gains tax for the privilege of leaving the country. That is way worse than what I mention in this post and will get its own post soon.

Is it different from the tax you would face if you just realize your gains?

Most unrealized gains are a notional value, the realizable gains are often much smaller. The act of realization can cause a crash in value.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a false dichotomy. Consumer return policies, customer service, etc. tend to be much better in the US than in the EU. I would characterize it rather that the US is pro-business and pro-consumer, but somewhat anti-average worker.

That’s not true. From mandatory refunds when selling online, to capped credit card fees, to longer warranties, the EU is clearly better for consumer rights. Some US businesses have realized that openly screwing your customers isn’t good business practice, but they’re somewhat of the exception I hear (and a lot of those companies offer the same policies, or better, in the EU, e.g. Costco) Apple is another good example…

And all of Apple's products are much more expensive in the EU. In Austria, a MacBook Air starts at EUR1199, and the same device starts at USD1099. At today's exchange rate, that European device costs USD1360, or nearly 20% more.

We can argue about the consumer friendliness of the regulations in the EU but they also add demonstrably to the cost of tech products (and likely other categories).

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have founded a UG and upgraded to a GmbH before. So why not to the same here, instead of going with this more complicated setup?

Because they want the credibility with clients, but for free.

How do entrepreneurs achieve to be considered as credible in other countries? By repeatedly providing value, not by having a high share capital. Anyway, in case of a problem the 25k€ will be eaten by lawyer fees.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#548
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author can surely understand it. And this system is what is keeping Germany and many European countries from propelling their economies forward by reducing market dynamism. Its not a coincidence that China, US and many other countries, which have more dynamic markets and large GDP growth let you set up a company in a day.

No he doesn't. You can register a Kleingewerbe at the Gewerbeamt online ([1] for NRW) and start right away. You can create an UG (literally supposed to fill the gap between a GmbH and a Kleingewerbe) within 2 weeks depending on the notary. And those 2 weeks come from the fact that the notary has better stuff to do than a UG registration and therefore probably doesn't make time specifically for you. If you want to sta…

Amazing, so you start a business which doesn’t have the same benefits as a if business and it takes “only” 2 weeks plus a notary.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#549
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory it’s based on whether the owner of the company intended to run it under capitalized in an effort to shirk liability.

But the larger point still stands: Limited liability was granted “on the front end” without the entity needing to demonstrate a minimum amount of capital. You’re only pointing out that in the U.S. that it’s possible that “on the back end” the owners of the entity might become personally liable.

Yes, i’m just elaborating on OP’s point. The US system is different and basically more optimistic on the front end.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#550

Honestly why go through all these hoops? Is the Wyoming LLC + Wise account route shut off for most Europeans?

Yes. Unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars that you can invest in the company that has not even been created, you would not be able to get a visa and your company would not be able to exist. Unless you are a startup with large investors, that route is closed.

Who said anything about getting a visa? The entire point of my idea was about skipping German bureaucracy. The only US bureaucracy is the IRS, and 2 forms for offshore LLCs at that. Getting a visa actually defeats the purpose of the Wyoming LLC, since you'd have to pay federal taxes as a US resident. But with the Wyoming LLC being pass-through with the added benefit of zero liability (same arrangement as OP), you'd only have to pay corporate taxes and then German personal income taxes as a German resident. You don't need to step foot in the US at all.

You can't get a visa to run your own company under normal circumstances anyways, the only routes being O1, EB5 or EB1.

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