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ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

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Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#541

Post by diablevv »

mike_hearn wrote: post #437
vlovich123 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn’t explain why you can’t even start typing until that check proceeds. You could condition the outbound request from being processed until that’s the case. But preventing from typing seems like it’s just worse UX and the problem will fail to appear in any metrics you can track because you have no way of measuring “how quickly would the user have submitted their request without all this other stuff in t…

I developed the first version of Google's equivalent of this (albeit theirs actually computes a constantly rotating key from the environment, it doesn't just hard-code it in the program!). The reason it has to block until it's loaded is that otherwise the signal being missing doesn't imply automation. The user might have just typed before it loaded. If you know a legit user will always deliver the data, you can use t…

[dead]

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#542

Post by qaadika »

tedsanders wrote: post #377
littlestymaar wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they know it's bad, they just don't think the rules apply to them.

For what it's worth, the big AI companies do have opt out mechanisms for scraping and search. OpenAI documents how to opt out of scraping here: https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/bots Anthropic documents how to opt out of scraping here: https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/8896518-does-anthropi... I'm not sure if Gemini lets you opt out without also delisting you from Google search rankings.

> the big AI companies do have opt out mechanisms for scraping and search.

PRESS RELEASE: UNITED BURGLARS SOCIETY

The United Burglars Society understands that being burgled may be inconvenient for some. In response, UBS has introduced the Opt-Out system for those who wish not to be burgled.

Please understand that each burglar is an independent contractor, so those wishing not to burgled should go to the website for each burglar in their area and opt-out there. UBS is not responsible for unwanted burglaries due to failing to opt-out.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#543

Post by toddmorey »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

Why are all these checks still performed on an authenticated, paid user?

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#544

Post by diebillionaires »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

As a free tier user I only get like three queries in now without model quality reduction, so I'd say your bases are covered as far as GPU costs around misuse.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#545

Post by diebillionaires »

Schiendelman wrote: post #539
lionkor wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Nick, first of all, very cool of you to respond here instead of letting us all sit in the dark. I think that's what makes HN special. That said, is it not a little bit weird that you want to protect yourself from scraping and bots, when your entire company, product, revenue, and your employment, depends on the fact that OpenAI can bot and scrape literally every part of the internet? So your moat is non-hydrated re…

Don't beat up an engineer for decisions made by company leadership. It's really inappropriate.

Yeah, no one is responsible for what they do as long as someone else tells them to do it.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#546

Post by duped »

raincole wrote: post #319
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Quite sure even literal thieves would consider thievery a form of abuse.

Engineers working on AI and AI enthusiasts are seemingly incapable of seeing the harm they cause, so I disagree.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#547

Post by lelandfe »

FergusArgyll wrote: post #106
appreciatorBus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Coincidentally about an hour ago, I wanted to look something up in ChatGPT and I happened to be in a browser window I don’t normally use, with no logged in accounts. I assumed it wouldn’t work, but to my surprise with no account, no cookies of any kind it took my query and gave me an answer.

Yeah it works but it's a dumber model. Prob mini

You get a couple requests in at a smarter model and then it prompts you to sign up, and from there uses an extremely dumb model.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#548

Post by Gander5739 »

gzread wrote: post #337
Gander5739 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because accounts are free, and could still be used to abuse as a free endpoint, with a little trickiness.

Don't you need a Google account and to get a Google account you need a phone number? "You're posting too fast! Please slow down."

You don't need a phone number to create a google account. (Though the account creation flow is inconsistent in this, in sone situations it will require a phone number, in some it won't.)

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#549

Post by lifis »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

Are you disabling them for paying subscribers?

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#550

Post by andrepd »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

> Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server

The gall. https://weirdgloop.org/blog/clankers

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