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Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

nytimes.com

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Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#541

Post by paddy_m »

b112 wrote: post #463
virtualritz wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

Yet your example purposefully sabotages cars by blocking streets to cars, and by not having city planners enforce enough parking spots for cars. The system can prioritize either method of travel. It's no surprise that when this happens, one is faster than the other.

You can never build enough parking spots if the cost of parking is $0. Optimally managed parking charges variably so that there is always about 10% of spaces free in a block.

The entitlement of drivers to think they have a right to park a metal box wherever they want for free in the middle of the most expensive real estate in the world is staggering.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#542

Post by paddy_m »

tlogan wrote: post #472
virtualritz wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

The decline public transportation, in my view, reflects a shift in priorities within the Democratic Party. Back in the 1990s, Democrats were more focused on tangible public services—things like infrastructure, roads, transit systems. Today, the emphasis seems to have moved toward issues like environmental policy, DEI, and gender identity. As someone who’s deeply frustrated by the lack of progress on projects like hig…

Ezra Klein talks about everything bagel liberalism where the left tries to layer every cause (diversity, unions, low income housing) onto a core good idea like building more housing or transit infrastructure. It gets in the way of the goal. housing is good because otherwise people would be homeless.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/opinion/democrats-liberal...

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#543

Post by rsynnott »

choeger wrote: post #345

I wonder if this will eventually lead to increased density and if that then leads to congested bike lanes. Will the cities of tomorrow regulate traffic between individual buildings? Make no mistake, bikes are much, much, better for urban centers than cars. But the overall problem isn't cars, it's individual traffic in densely populated areas. Certain policy here in Europe simply assumes that people stay in their surr…

> I wonder if this will eventually lead to increased density and if that then leads to congested bike lanes.

I mean, there's only so much more dense you can make Manhattan.

> Certain policy here in Europe simply assumes that people stay in their surroundings ("15 minute city") and rarely, if ever, visit parts that are farther away individually.

... Eh? Which country is that? Like, in any city with any sort of mass transit system, that is presumably not any sort of policy, because the mass transit system is explicitly for going to places that you can't easily get to. The idea with the "15 minute city" thing is that you don't _need_ to travel far from home for essentials, not that you don't travel far from home. Like, I live within 15 minute walk of all essentials, but I often go places which are further away.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#545

Post by rsynnott »

explodes wrote: post #4

Wouldn't it be nice if policy changes were accompanied by an A/B testing plan to evaluate their impact? I have always thought so. I have also seen a major pitfall of A/B testing that real humans can hand-pick and slice data to make it sound as positive or negative as wanted. Nonetheless, the more data the better.

What a good idea. Simply build another Manhattan for the purpose.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#546

Post by JTbane »

potato3732842 wrote: post #141
jmyeet wrote: post #33

I was living in London when congestion pricing was introduced and went into the West End the day before and the first day of and the difference was night and day. The difference along Oxford Street, Regent's Street, Green Street, etc was astounding. And in the 20+ years the evidence seems to back up how much of a net positive it has been. NYC congestion pricing took way too long because the New York Democratic Party…

I'm fundamentally against any measure that intentionally increases the cost at use of any form of transportation service whatsoever. Public transit? Free. Gas tax? Kill it. I grew up on a goddamn island, I've seen what an inability for people to travel easily or when the cost of doing so has to be seriously weighed does to an economy and it's not good for anyone or anything except a very select lucky few who are well…

IMO fuel taxes should be higher if it means more people and companies buy hybrids and EVs.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#548

Post by tristan957 »

Tade0 wrote: post #446
kmeisthax wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expanding the commute availability circle does not increase the supply of housing, because people build sparser neighborhoods with larger lawns. If you want to increase the supply of housing, you need higher density, not longer distance. What longer distance does is make the closer areas more valuable, because people will pay $$$ for a shorter commute. And for those who can't afford the closer housing, they get to pa…

In my region of the world they enable having any sort of housing at all . Plenty of people don't have the credit score to buy anything livable within city limits, so they resort to buying apartments in the suburbs and small, adjacent cities. Public transport hasn't caught up because these places developed too fast and even though their inhabitants live and pay taxes there, the businesses they work for don't, so the t…

Your point is valid, but the lack of affordable housing in your city is most likely due to the lifestyles that cars allow us to live. Single family homes and parking lots as far as the eye can see.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#549

Post by ty6853 »

lazide wrote: post #428
doctoboggan wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Chicago and use a cargo ebike with a child seat for probably 90% of my trips. I can take my kid to school, go shopping, and go to my office on my bike, often quicker than if I were to take a car. Chicago has (recently?) put a lot of focus on their bike infrastructure (protected bike lanes, bike signals, bike only paths, etc) and it seems pretty widely used.

I’ve experienced Chicago winters. Do you put the kid in that seat?!?

The bigger problem in the winter is the drivers get even crazier and the roads can occasionally get icy.

When I was bike only I had my arm damaged in a way that it took close to a decade to get back to normal. On another occasion I was knocked unconscious. Both occasions were drivers who left turned into a parking lot without looking, crossing a lane then going right into me in the bike lane.

A car provides a nice cushion for those sorts of happening. I think if I had a child in either case there is a good chance they would be dead.

While I support the right of people to make their own risk assessments for their family, I fear it is only a matter of time until they come to understand what I did about Chicago biking.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#550

Post by dahart »

Chris2048 wrote: post #517
dahart wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny how the one time it has ever happened that someone wielded a chainsaw on the subway it’s memorable news, and becomes evidence of a narrative that all of public transit is ‘sketchy’. That article’s from 7 years ago, and nobody got hurt and the guy was arrested. (BTW, I wonder why they used a photo from 2009?) In the mean time, the number of shooting deaths by private car drivers in the US has more than doub…

Fairly recently: https://nypost.com/2025/04/15/us-news/cause-of-death-still-a... A man died while riding the train, one person robbed the corpse, then another had sex with it..

I heard about that one too, very unique and weird for sure! But we could go through the stories of each of the few hundred fatalities that happened on public transit last year, and it wouldn’t even be a blip compared to the tens of thousands of people killed in gruesome accidents in cars. Incidentally I still remember the description of Paul Walker’s death for kinda the same reason that subway chainsaws and necrophilia are so memorable… it was freaky.
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