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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#541

Post by smodo »

blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

How do you mean? Who upholds those codified freedoms? Many democratic countries have similar fundamental laws that are explicitly hard to change or bypass. In the end though all rules are either enforced by some authority or they are mere suggestions. The USA doesn’t seem like a special case to me?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#542

Post by 0xCMP »

nemomarx wrote: post #479
ekianjo wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think 3 letters agencies care about the law? Ever heard of Snowden leaks?

one of the Snowden leaks was exactly about the five eyes countries coordinating in this way to dodge oversight though?

Right, but the point is they went through the motions to attempt to follow the law. They weren't simply saying someone else was doing the work and then doing it themselves. They at least attempt to follow the law internally. Which is not something we knew for certain or not in the public.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#543

Post by eric_h »

afro88 wrote: post #523
TrueDuality wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as Apple has a business presence in the UK, they are subject to the laws the UK imposes on them even if they're vastly overreaching and impose on other government's citizens. Not supporting cloud services wouldn't be sufficient to avoid the compliance requirement, they would have to formerly stop doing business in the UK. Looking at the market size that might be a decision that Apple is willing to make as it…

The decision wouldn't involve just market size, but their Irish tax haven as well. They're not going to pull out of the UK entirely.

Their Irish tax haven is rather specifically _not_ in the UK.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#544

Post by Lio »

maeil wrote: post #490
Lio wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which party, with a realistic chance of being first past the post, could you vote for that wouldn't bring this in? This is Hobson's choice as far as I can see. I don't think there's anyone you could currently vote for that wouldn't do this.

You know the answer, of course with FPTP there's only two parties with a realistic chance. But why do they? Because you keep voting on them. Your votes made e.g. Corbyn lose but Starmer win. What signal does this give off? A very different signal than if both would've lost. Would another Tory government would have been even worse? In the short term, maybe. But this kind of short-termism is what has got Labour (and al…

I’m sorry but Corbyn was a terrible choice as Labour leader, and I vote Labour in that election!

He was unelectable for a variety of reasons.

Here’s three:

Wanting to pull out of NATO and instead appease Putin.

Lying about being forced to sit on the floor of what was later shown to be an empty train.

Basically doing nothing during the Brexit fiasco.

He was just gaff after gaff.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#545

Post by isaacremuant »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #426
banku_brougham wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a pet theory, it's exactly how the Five-Eyes system is meant to work. I remember when Total Information Awareness was announced and they even had a cool badge designed for the new govt department. It wasn't a popular idea.

It is a pet theory. It is illegal for the US to access its citizens' and residents' data without a warrant, and asking somebody else to do it doesn't magically make it legal.

It's not a pet theory when there's proof they have engaged in it through five eyes. We're not saying it respects the constitution or its intent. We're saying it's what happens.

Black CIA sites weren't legal either, nor was torture.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#546

Post by ajsnigrutin »

janice1999 wrote: post #147
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this kinds of arguments... both sides want to read your private data, but it's bad if 'the other side' does it? It's your current MI5/government that wants access to apples data.

One side wants to purge large parts of the population and the other one doesn't. Yes, all parties can abuse data, but their policies do actually matter.

The other one isn't even voted in yet, hasn't done anything yet, and the current one already wants the data, that they shouldn't get.

The current ones are already abusing their power, and the other one might hypothetically do something, if and when and if at all.

This is like Alice making it legal and then punching you in the face and instead of you "punching back", you say "this is fine, but Bob is bad, because if he gets voted in, he'll punch harder".

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#547

Post by isaacremuant »

The funny thing is that anyone pointing out authoritarianism will get downvoted with a whole bunch of partisan arguments or left/right false dichotomies.

Here we are, though, at the point where the government overreach for these "beacons of democracy" such as US and UK do this often and by design and we're all supposed to pretend "thing are fine, trust us". Next they'll push some other overreach using children, terrorism, drugs or some other usual excuse and people will defend it pretending the government has good intentions and largely works for the people.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#548

Post by bagels »

switch007 wrote: post #532
elevatedastalt wrote: post #512

I feel Apple is one of the few companies that has the market power to say, Fuck you, we will just not sell or offer any services in your market, and I suspect that would be enough for voters to knock some sense into their government.

What makes you think they'll do that? Any previous examples? China maybe?

They probably won't, but it'd probably work

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#549

Post by gsk22 »

smodo wrote: post #541
blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

How do you mean? Who upholds those codified freedoms? Many democratic countries have similar fundamental laws that are explicitly hard to change or bypass. In the end though all rules are either enforced by some authority or they are mere suggestions. The USA doesn’t seem like a special case to me?

> Many democratic countries have similar fundamental laws that are explicitly hard to change or bypass.

What exactly constitutes "hard to change"? In many countries, fundamental freedoms are regular legislation which can be overturned in the usual manner. Even a threshold of 2/3 or 3/4 to change is much easier to overcome than the federated constitutional amendment process in the US.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#550

Post by isaacremuant »

botanical76 wrote: post #91

This is so disheartening. I thought we were making progress in the anti-surveillance privacy narrative, but this says otherwise. As a UK citizen, is there anything I can do to dissuade this? edit: typo

Probably helps if the next time they try to remove the rights of large segments of the populace based on medical choices, lock people down, track them and propose vaccine passports, that you realize where everything is headed and oppose it vocally.

It's always through the appearance of good intentions and a public that pushes for whatever narrative they're fed that they normalize this.

People love and want more of this, not less.

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