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Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

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Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#541

Post by dragonwriter »

dbspin wrote: post #408
andirk wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Berkeley and other SF Bay Area cities, we have imposed an "Empty Home Tax" [0][1] at some $ and % per year. As a proponent, I figured it would incentivize people to either rent or sell their unused properties which will house people and get rid of blight. Neither has happened much and these owners just take the hit. Housing as a speculative asset has some pretty terrible consequences. [0] https://www.berkeley…

I think the principle is solid though. Tax should effectively be 100% of the market value of the property after a certain point though - say one year.

If you want to do that, you have to first pass a federal Constitutional amendment repealing the 5th Amendment (well, just the part requiring just compensation for takings), or reverse the existing jurisprudence on regulatory takings. And while the current Supreme Court is unusually willing to toss precedent, its ideological alignment is more on the side that would read the takings clause restrictions more expansively, so you're back to an amendment.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#542

Post by throwawayq3423 »

mmooss wrote: post #353
fragmede wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is completely detached from reality. what's completely detached from reality is that the problem is so bad in (US) cities like NYC that it seems inconceivable that it isn't a universal truth that cities just have an indigent population that regularly threatens and sometimes follows through on threats of violence to passersby. How did we let the problem get this bad‽

> like NYC You don't know how ridiculous that is. Stop watching propaganda and just visit NYC. I'm tempted to buy you a ticket. Or just ask someone who lives there.

You can tell when people don't live somewhere and get their opinion of that place strictly from social media.

Makes you wonder how badly social media is distorting the rest of our lives.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#543

Post by throwawayq3423 »

sugarplant wrote: post #486
Arn_Thor wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think perhaps your biases are showing in the language you deploy (junkeis, free to destroy). You're asking for evidence that's readily available, if you want it, from studies to meta studies. The evidence ranges from conclusive to inconclusive, which isn't surprising given the many different types of implementation and existence of support ystems (or lack thereof). In terms of cost, we need to look at the total soc…

>marginal decrease in for example medical expenses why would there be a decrease rather than an increase? they're linked up with a full time care team as well as paths for more healthcare services. they also are allowed to continue to destroy their body with drugs. a local newspaper just ran an article here about how many health problems they have when they get into the local program. yes i am very bias about the top…

> yes i am very bias about the topic, and it wouldnt matter to me if it were much cheaper.

So is what the US is doing right now working? Just the in healthcare, the US pays more per person when addressing this problem than anywhere else in the world, and gets nearly the worst result. Isn't that alone worth trying something else?

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#544

Post by maxerickson »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #530
maxerickson wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are rents going down in Austin then? Lots of rent to seek there with all the new housing being built.

We've seen London prices drop recently. That's mainly because we've seen higher interest rates and a flight of capital from the UK. People aren't as confident in the ponzi scheme continuing. It may also be in part because of huge drop in population post-brexit, although AFAICT there are no accurate numbers on that because the government doesn't want to admit that Brexit is a disaster. I would guess Austin might be se…

In Austin, it's because they are building a huge amount of housing!

Like yeah, it probably is less profitable to speculate on housing in Austin, where pricing is improving because of increased supply, you need to do a little more than hand wave of your argument is that the causation goes in the other direction.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#545

Post by Tiktaalik »

Qwertious wrote: post #358
mrkstu wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In a functioning economy" is doing a lot of work here. Here in reality the parent comment is 100% correct.

My point is that immigration is a distraction from the nonfunctioning economy .

Exactly.

Can I create a small company of a half a dozen new immigrant trades, buy single family homes, tear them down and build new fourplexes? Nope this is largely banned (though ever so slowly changing in some areas).

The severe regulation has distorted the market and created a housing shortage that is legally prevented from being addressed no matter what available new immigrant talent is at hand.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#546

Post by throwawayq3423 »

fsloth wrote: post #434
andrewla wrote: post #92

Without digging too deep into the nature of the statistics they use, I'm a little skeptical of this. The transition to using the word "homeless" has resulted in transforming something we can't easily measure -- "drug addicted or mentally ill people being a public menace" -- into something that we can measure -- "people without a good living arrangement". Sure, the latter is important in a lot of ways too. And there h…

Speaking as a Finn. It's foremost NOT about mental&substance issues treatment but general financial aid to anyone in need. I think this phraze from the article summarizes it well. "The Finnish experience demonstrates the effectiveness of tackling homelessness through a combination of financial assistance, integrated and targeted support services and more supply: " It's a holistic system that actually kicks-in way bef…

Sounds like the result of being a small and rich country. The scale of these actions in a country like the US (Or India) would be impossibly expensive.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#547

Post by throwawayq3423 »

wrl wrote: post #503
sugarplant wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe if you act just a little more condescending i will have a clue what you are trying to say

By what mechanism would reducing needle and syringe programs lead to fewer needles being left in public places? It's not like access to needles causes people to take up an injection drug habit.

He's going off the logic that the more services you provide for drug addicts, the more drug addicts you get. It's tied to the idea that an increase in homeless services attracts more homeless, which is true if you have a federalized system like the USA where the majority of homeless go to one place (or city).

But there's no evidence that drug services increase drug use.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#548

Post by throwawayq3423 »

saulpw wrote: post #269
1propionyl wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's nearly impossible to fix. The horrors of involuntary commitment vs. the horrors of not having involuntary commitment vs. the horrors of using the criminal justice system vs. the horrors of not using the criminal justice system. I think, frankly, and I base this on experience with family undergoing involuntary commitment in Europe... we really are still a bit collectively traumatized or basing our takes on what…

It can be compassionate in other places, but I think the US has proven itself to lack compassion in some pretty essential ways.

This really does come down to comparing small countries, where programs like this can actually work, to large countries, where the scale makes it impossible.

If your country is small and rich, government can be highly functional. But please stop comparing it to a larger place, it's apples to oranges.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#549

Post by throwawayq3423 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #73
rossdavidh wrote: post #66

"Building flats is key: otherwise, especially if housing supply is particularly rigid, the funding of rentals can risk driving up rents (OECD, 2021a), thus reducing the “bang for the buck” of public spending." So, yes, if you want low homelessness, you build a lot of housing and make sure that rents are low. This is true, and a good strategy.

And don’t “fix” the problem at the expense of the paycheque-to-paycheque lower-working class. Otherwise it’s zero sum and you create a homeless for every homeless you remove and disincentivize work.

> And don’t “fix” the problem at the expense of the paycheque-to-paycheque lower-working class.

More supply means their rent goes down too.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#550

Post by throwawayq3423 »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #496
Scoundreller wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sufficient vacant property taxes can make it a real option

Taxes! Of course; there is no problem just taking more money from other people can’t solve.

Taxes have made our modern societies possible, so yes they are often the answer to a problem. The American insistence taxes are wrong or "theft" is a malign view that, if adopted widespread, would destroy the ability of most democracies to function.
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