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Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

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Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#61

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

philip1209 wrote: post #4

Worth pointing out that Finland is one of the most ethnically homogeneous societies in Europe - only ~10% of the population is of foreign origin and background [1]. So, like Japan, it's easier to have a high-trust society if you eschew immigration. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm very pro-immigration. I just think that studying rich homogeneous societies doesn't result in many useful takeaways for countries like the USA.…

So are there other techniques for fixing homelessness that work in these so-called "low-trust" societies?

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#62

Post by deanc »

Helsinki, at least is an interesting place. Much like any other capital if you go to certain neighbourhoods you can see drug dealers, drug users (many which are living in shelters) - even in downtown. They kind of blend in, are part of the scenery and on the whole only interact with their "own kind". You might hear some grumbling, shouting, smelly folk on the tram - but they aren't treated with the same contempt at existing as I've seen in other countries.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#63

Post by nostromo »

octopusRex wrote: post #8

The US chooses not to end homelessness. We have the highest GDP in the world. We could end it if we wanted to. I was in Japan recently. A choice was made there as well.

It's funny how every westerner visits Japan and comes home thinking we can "solve crime" or "solve homelessness" or "have clean subway stations."

Japan's culture is why those things are the way they are. It's not due to funding. It's because people raise their children differently than we do in the west. The family's obligations are also greater.

And, yes, there are homeless people in Japan. But they typically are invisible by choice because of their cultural norms around discretion.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#64

Post by wormlord »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #60
octopusRex wrote: post #8

The US chooses not to end homelessness. We have the highest GDP in the world. We could end it if we wanted to. I was in Japan recently. A choice was made there as well.

How could the United States end homelessness? It is a mix of federal government, state governments, and local/county/municipal governments. The level of government best suited to do the actual work is hamstrung... if any one city fixes homelessness (somehow), more homeless will show up. If they do that again for the new arrivals, more homeless show up. The first to solve it is punished with tens of thousands of newly…

This argument is so lame. "Actually the overall structure of the USA is designed so that its basicalyl impossible to solve the crisis".

You're not wrong in the fact that America is a shit country designed to intentionally to use homelessness as an implicit threat against the working class. You are wrong in the sense that all the things you listed aren't reasons, just excuses to cover up the intentionality of homelessness, and that homelessness could be solved if there was the political will to do so. Which there will never be in the USA because again, the homelessness crisis is intentional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#65

Post by segasaturn »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #60
octopusRex wrote: post #8

The US chooses not to end homelessness. We have the highest GDP in the world. We could end it if we wanted to. I was in Japan recently. A choice was made there as well.

How could the United States end homelessness? It is a mix of federal government, state governments, and local/county/municipal governments. The level of government best suited to do the actual work is hamstrung... if any one city fixes homelessness (somehow), more homeless will show up. If they do that again for the new arrivals, more homeless show up. The first to solve it is punished with tens of thousands of newly…

Create a federal jobs program to build apartments in large quantities, not just in cities but in rural, suburban and exurban areas as well. Anybody who's an American citizen and able bodied (including ex-convicts and felons) can apply and get a good paying job with health insurance. Use the federal government's power of eminent domain to override zoning laws and seize land that's being sat on, and finally pay for it by heavily taxing the tech giants, cutting military spending and legalizing (and taxing) cannabis.

Will politicians ever do it? No, they're in the pocket of the military and the 1%. Will voters ever vote for it? No, they're fed a steady stream of propaganda that tells them that this would be "socialism". But that's how the problem would be solved.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#66

Post by rossdavidh »

"Building flats is key: otherwise, especially if housing supply is particularly rigid, the funding of rentals can risk driving up rents (OECD, 2021a), thus reducing the “bang for the buck” of public spending."

So, yes, if you want low homelessness, you build a lot of housing and make sure that rents are low. This is true, and a good strategy.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#67

Post by stevenicr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
ipaddr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US could end homelessness but would need to stop immigration and change the constitution which could force people in shelter. Not sure it's the outcome we all want.

> US could end homelessness but would need to stop immigration and change the constitution which could force people in shelter Immigrants are a tiny fraction of the homeless [1]. And we’ve tried criminalising homelessness; incarceration is forced shelter and incredibly expensive. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30739834/

according to that 'adults participating in the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions' .. It also says foreign born is 1% vs native at 1.7% - so they are both 'a tiny fraction'

Whether or not a large percentage, or a large number or small number of immigrants are homeless or not,

one must assume that if 11 million people left the US next month, the price of rent in many places may go down a bit, and some currently unhoused people might be able to afford a cheaper place.

Of course another side is that wages in some industries will rise, and that may put more people into a position where they can afford an apartment.

What I'd like to see is how inexpensive optional housing can be made.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#68

Post by kansface »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19
rs999gti wrote: post #6

In the article, I did not see anything about mental illness or addicts. How did FI solve for those people? Both groups have people who want to be homeless, so they can be left alone.

> Both groups have people who want to be homeless, so they can be left alone Why can't they be left alone in a home?

They destroy it.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#70

Post by dyauspitr »

nostromo wrote: post #63
octopusRex wrote: post #8

The US chooses not to end homelessness. We have the highest GDP in the world. We could end it if we wanted to. I was in Japan recently. A choice was made there as well.

It's funny how every westerner visits Japan and comes home thinking we can "solve crime" or "solve homelessness" or "have clean subway stations." Japan's culture is why those things are the way they are. It's not due to funding. It's because people raise their children differently than we do in the west. The family's obligations are also greater. And, yes, there are homeless people in Japan. But they typically are in…

It’s definitely cultural. I’ve been to every major city in the US and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a homeless Indian. Some groups have broken familial cultures that does not churn out good citizens. Did the US in the past play a major role in breaking down those groups and surrounding them with abject poverty that makes it hard to escape from? Absolutely.
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