Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts • Hacker News Board

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#541

Post by prmoustache » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:48 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #456

jolux wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I linked the DOJ and not the Equal Justice Initiative because I thought they would be less likely to be seen as partisan or politically motivated. But here’s EJI on the same issue: https://eji.org/issues/prison-conditions/ and Harvard Political Review making a similar argument to my top post (that US prisons don’t adequately rehabilitate): https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/ And since you linked…

Rehabilitation doesn’t work. The modern sociological study of crime and criminals began at the latest in the 70s. They’ve been looking for a reliably working method of rehabilitation for 50 years and have nothing. Prisons works fine as incapacitation, keeping criminals warehoused until they age out of their prime criminal years but rehabilitation doesn’t work. > Prisoner rehabilitation does not work, says former pris…

You can do all the rehab you want but if nobody is willing to employ anyone with a big hole in his history, that can't end well.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#542

Post by Ekaros » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:51 AM UTC

HDThoreaun wrote: post #121

alexb_ wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they still wouldn't be at fault. It's not their fault that the society Baltimore has crafted is so low trust that you can't leave your car outside for a second without it getting stolen.

It's their fault they made a defective product though. When people buy a car the expectation is that you can't steal it in under 10 seconds with no tools.

These cars are in full compliance of regulations. It is not manufactures fault that the country they sell cars in is so massively incompetent that they do not set proper standards.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#543

Post by kilotaras » Sat, May 13, 2023, 10:20 AM UTC

caditinpiscinam wrote: post #506

ravensfan69 wrote: post #139

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I…

This viewpoint is so backwards to me. Rich people buy up the nicest houses. They buy themselves new Teslas. They buy $5k sofas and $10k refrigerators and $20k NFTs. They hire landscapers and cleaners and movers and roofers and pay them minimum wage, or less. They buy up all the other houses and rent them out for double the mortgage payments. They get a $50k bonus from their job at some payday-loan-app startup and the…

> And then one day someone steals one of their Teslas, and they bemoan the injustice that normal, law-abiding citizens like them face and resolve to hate the poor even more.

They hire private security for they gated community, don't have any Teslas stolen, bemoan on how poor kids that steal cars are a result of dysfunctional society and pat each other on backs for being so progressive. All while completely ignoring the fact that it's mostly other poor people, who are victims of those crimes. See [0]

[0] https://robkhenderson.substack.com/p/status-symbols-and-the-...

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#544

Post by jasonm23 » Sat, May 13, 2023, 10:20 AM UTC

brokencode wrote: post #512

jasonm23 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are European regulations due to people stealing tech devices? I thought it was due to anti-consumer practices.

So making cars that lack basic anti-theft features common in other brands of cars doesn’t count as anti-consumer?

No, not if it's not hidden away from the customer and deceptive.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#545

Post by jasonm23 » Sat, May 13, 2023, 10:21 AM UTC

pb7 wrote: post #517

jasonm23 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are European regulations due to people stealing tech devices? I thought it was due to anti-consumer practices.

Not including anti-theft devices that they include in other countries that mandate them is pretty anti-consumer. In this case, it's also extremely costly and dangerous unlike something like not saving website cookies.

It really depends on how the car is marketed, no?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#546

Post by bilvar » Sat, May 13, 2023, 10:24 AM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #536

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while. Genuine question; is that only physically? If I like causing people pain and anguish and suffering, and my weapon of choice is words, should I also be incarcerated because I hurt people intentionally? I tend towards not giving people a free pass simply because their weapon of choice is words, but (amongst other things) the US has a repu…

Please don't equate words with physical violence. It's Orwellian and the only purpose it serves is to destabilize society.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#547

Post by scotty79 » Sat, May 13, 2023, 11:15 AM UTC

lowkey_ wrote: post #241

Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

High incarceration rate makes sense when the US has a high crime rate. I don't understand why anyone thinks incarceration rate should not be correlated or would not be correlate to crime rate. Incarcerating criminals isn't the issue, having so many criminals is the issue.

High incarceration rate might cause high crime. Especially since ex-convicts are almost banned from any work. The only thing they can do to sustain themselves is more crime.

US views criminals a people who failed the society, while at these numbers it would be way more reasonable to see them as people failed by the society.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#548

Post by matthewdgreen » Sat, May 13, 2023, 11:53 AM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #538

matthewdgreen wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you’ve had a gun pointed at you from a car, taken down the license plate, then been told there’s nothing they can do because the car was stolen —- you’ll realize that car theft isn’t some individual problem. We’ve had the tech to solve this problem for decades, but car manufacturers decided to save a few bucks.

Couldn't a car be stolen also by pointing gun at the owner? The problem is the people the citizens that do these crimes. Not the technical implementations of vehicles.

They can but this one was not. It was taken from in front of a nearby house while the owner slept.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#549

Post by akudha » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:11 PM UTC

lstodd wrote: post #495

ehnto wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why many countries mandate immobilisers in cars. I have had my car stolen twice so this issue isn't distant from me, if it has become a state issue it needs a state solution. Individual responsibility seems to be the American preference though, on an individual level you have the ability to install an immobiliser, and being familiar with the car's features when you make such a massive purchase shouldn't be u…

Yeah, I had one with an immobiliser. By the third time it went nuts and blocked me from starting the car it took me about 3 minutes to reset it, and the tools were already kept in the trunk for just this. Now I live in a country where it's normal to leave cars with open windows and even doors in the street so that they don't overheat in the sun. Sometimes even with keys dangling. No immobilisers necessary -- only dec…

Woah, where do you live, that you can leave the keys in the car with windows/doors open? Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#550

Post by tyingq » Sat, May 13, 2023, 12:17 PM UTC

ravensfan69 wrote: post #139

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I…

I agree that Hyundai and Kia don't own the whole problem. But they are unusual in shipping new cars without immobilizers. And it is solely done to reduce cost. That does contribute the the problem.