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Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

theregister.com

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Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#541

Post by op00to »

gfosco wrote: post #482
wahern wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone making $250k/year shouldn't think twice dropping $21/month on a tool that truly makes them more productive. A year or two ago I bought a personal license to Ubuntu FIPS after being urgently asked to debug an issue w/ Python's OpenSSL bindings. Unsurprisingly it turned out that my company had an enterprise license, and had I known whom to contact (which I didn't), I could have gotten a license key in a couple…

As someone who went from the PA suburbs and small IT shops (where 75k was a premium salary) to the SF startup scene and Facebook, one of the observations that has stuck with me was the incredible cheapness of my wealthy tech peers. It's hard to explain unless you've been around people who do a whole lot more with a whole lot less.

Maybe they’re wealthy because they aren’t spending all their money on shit their employer should buy. You say cheap, others say “good with money”.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#542

Post by GordonS »

Anyone here running the Docker Engine in WSL2?

I've been using Docker Desktop for years, and thankfully it's been more stable for the past year or two - before that it was a shitshow.

It works great for me now, but I don't actually need or use any of the GUI features - it's more or less a glorified installer for Docker Engine. Not sure if it has to do any magic for mounting Windows folders to work?

Anyway, curious if it's possible to just run Docker Engine in WSL2 myself, if there are any gotchas, and if mounting Windows folders "just works"?

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#543

Post by thinkharderdev »

techthumb wrote: post #94

I've been using Minikube's docker-engine and haven't missed DockerForMac for some time now. Minikube sets up a Linux VM using MacOS Hypervisor. It even has a convenience command to configure docker-cli/docker-client. $ minikube docker-env export DOCKER_TLS_VERIFY="1" export DOCKER_HOST="tcp://192.168.65.11:2376" export DOCKER_CERT_PATH="/Users/wibble/.minikube/certs" export MINIKUBE_ACTIVE_DOCKERD="minikube" For corp…

Yeah, I used minikube for local dev on k8s services and ended up just using it for all Docker stuff after a while. It is slightly less ergonomic than Docker for Mac though especially with respect to DNS and network issues. For instance, the minikube VM and any containers running in it cannot by default use the host machines VPN, so if you have to connect to an external service over your corporate VPN then you need to do some extra config (which isn't very well documented) to make it work. And the setup I ended up using was to use the VPNKit socket that was part of Docker for Mac to make it work. Now VPNKit is also OSS so I'm sure you can get it to work without Docker for Mac at all but it's also not trivial.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#544

Post by thinkharderdev »

deusex_ wrote: post #144
techthumb wrote: post #94

I've been using Minikube's docker-engine and haven't missed DockerForMac for some time now. Minikube sets up a Linux VM using MacOS Hypervisor. It even has a convenience command to configure docker-cli/docker-client. $ minikube docker-env export DOCKER_TLS_VERIFY="1" export DOCKER_HOST="tcp://192.168.65.11:2376" export DOCKER_CERT_PATH="/Users/wibble/.minikube/certs" export MINIKUBE_ACTIVE_DOCKERD="minikube" For corp…

But what minikube backend are you using for this? The preferred one is Docker and all the others are also paid on Mac.

Hyperkit, which is incidentally also what Docker for Mac uses.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#546

Post by thinkharderdev »

dgellow wrote: post #492
dpratt wrote: post #33

This appears to be cutting of their nose to spite their face. We have a team of 50+ engineers that all use Docker for Mac for daily development tasks, but I suspect that will no longer be true in a rather short amount of time. Frankly, I don’t really know if anybody actually uses the UI components for it outside of starting and stopping the engine and for basic configuration of the VM. Everything else that comes with…

So you have a tool that your team use daily, but won’t pay a small license for it? I’m not sure I understand that logic. If the tool you have worked for you when it was free, it still works for you when you pay a small cost per month. Unless the cost is really that huge, I don’t see why that would be a reason to change.

I think it is mostly the issue of dealing with byzantine corporate procurement processes. Also, it's really not all the clear what value-add Docker for Desktop is. Essentially it is just doing what you can do using the OSS components (running a Linux VM which runs the docker daemon and mounting a Unix socket on the host machine to talk to it). The only "value add" is a UI app on the host machine which I have never once used personally or witnessed anyone else using.

I certainly don't begrudge Docker for trying to create a sustainable business, but as an "open core" model it's really hard to understand what their proprietary extensions are that people will want to pay for. They took a stab at the container orchestration space with Docker Swarm (which you could definitely imagine having an "enterprise version") but that lost out pretty definitively to Kubernetes. So they're left with Docker Hub? That just doesn't seem like it will really be much of a revenue generator. You're either using whatever cloud container registry is available (ECR, GCR etc) or you're using a more general artifact repository like Artifactory, GitHub which can be a container registry as well as a Maven/NPM/etc artifact repository.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#547

Post by malux85 »

namdnay wrote: post #158
qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

Yep, I’ve been there, I was a consultant in London charging 700 pounds a day, and my hands were tied because of a silly 50 USD license expense and couldn’t work for a month.

I asked if I could just pay it myself, but was told that would violate the IT department guidelines and possibly an SLA too, so I just sat there for a month, reminding everyone at the daily stand ups I was blocked. I couldn’t believe it.

I was not the only one who was tied in red tape there, it was indeed normal.

This company was making 600 million a year in profit.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#548

Post by pimterry »

stavros wrote: post #410
pimterry wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the author of HTTP Toolkit! Just ran into this by chance, glad you like it :-D I should mention here: not only is the core product all free, it's also completely open source, even including the paid bits ( https://github.com/httptoolkit ). And those Pro features are completely free for all contributors to the project. I've tried to set it up so I couldn't run off with it and force everybody to start paying even i…

I love you.

Oh Stavros you flirt.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#550

Post by oblio »

danudey wrote: post #420
jeremyjh wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing this has to be a great business opportunity. Surely someone is already working on it?

A simple local k8s installation with a simple but effective GUI on top, running containerd instead of docker and with a CLI wrapper for docker commands, would be more than enough for everything I need.

Yeah, but who's going to pay for that development? Especially since the targets are Windows and MacOS.
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