Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#391

Post by acdha » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:37 PM UTC

kristjansson wrote: post #276

acdha wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other big factor: certain other vendors have very aggressive sales tactics which essentially boil down to “buy a bunch of stuff you don’t need or we’ll audit every computer in your company and charge a penalty for anything we can find to quibble with”. Docker doesn’t need to actually do that to run afoul of policies based on the scar tissue from those other vendors. Simply going from “you can use it without being…

Yup, this is the concern. Having been kindly asked by Oracle to remove virtualbox extensions, this sort of gotcha/conditional pricing feels dangerous

The big thing for me is the question of the future: they say they currently won't be predatory about it[1] and I have no reason to doubt that the people saying that are being completely honest, but we don't know who will be working there in the future or where the next acquisition/merger will take them.

Without a contract, it's hard to disagree with the policy types who are going to ask what protects the organization if that happens. Once you go down this path even a little, the barriers to entry at large organizations go up since you have to look at it from the perspective of both the upfront cost and possible future cost / off-ramps.

1. https://twitter.com/scottcjohnston/status/143272649295845376...

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#392

Post by mc32 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #158

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

Sometimes you can put these things on CC rather than P.O.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#393

Post by pimterry » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #186

codyogden wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to coin it as “embrace, extend, extort.”

Same with Telerik Fiddler recently. Good piece of software for debugging network requests on Windows. Was free for as long as I've known it existed. Telerik recently bought by 'Progress' (ironic), software re-written in Electron and now charges a subscription to use it. Glad HTTP Toolkit is now available free for 'hobbyist' tasks - https://httptoolkit.tech/

I'm the author of HTTP Toolkit! Just ran into this by chance, glad you like it :-D

I should mention here: not only is the core product all free, it's also completely open source, even including the paid bits (https://github.com/httptoolkit). And those Pro features are completely free for all contributors to the project.

I've tried to set it up so I couldn't run off with it and force everybody to start paying even if I wanted to, but any suggestions for further improvements there very welcome.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#394

Post by temp_praneshp » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

indemnity wrote: post #178

mongol wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should not have to work like this.

Agree 100%. I don’t want to have to resort to Twitter or HN to get a ticket worked. Fuck that, hire some staff, work on your enterprise support.

> hire some staff

And that's why they are scaling back on free plans.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#395

Post by voxic11 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

mleonhard wrote: post #381

> There's a standards conversion going on where we can trace the provenance of each and every layer of the image, we can start signing those layers, and with that metadata, we can start doing automated decisioning, automated reporting, automated visibility into what's been done to that image at each step of the lifecycle. Docker's CEO is being disingenuous. When you deploy a Docker container, you specify the image ID…

You seem to be mixing up image ids which are not content addressable identifiers and image digests which are.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#396

Post by voxic11 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

bspammer wrote: post #389

mleonhard wrote: post #381

> There's a standards conversion going on where we can trace the provenance of each and every layer of the image, we can start signing those layers, and with that metadata, we can start doing automated decisioning, automated reporting, automated visibility into what's been done to that image at each step of the lifecycle. Docker's CEO is being disingenuous. When you deploy a Docker container, you specify the image ID…

The fact that images are not content-addressed is very surprising to me. I just always assumed they were because… why wouldn’t they be? I bet a large proportion of other devs assumed the same.

They are if you use the digest rather than the id.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#397

Post by cebert » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

stevebmark wrote: post #214

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

What companies are offering $250k/year for engineers?

It seems like 200k+ is pretty typical for Engineers with at least some experience even in less hot markets like the Midwest. I know several developers in the Metro Detroit area making more than 200k base.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#398

Post by raman162 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #313

raman162 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shameful may have been a harsh word , disappointing is more appropriate. The disappointing part is that a product that was once free and distributed in abundance is now requiring licensing starting immediately for small businesses. There is a transition gap but the policy is effective starting today. There were no added features of value, it was just a random change of price from nothing to something. I think the new…

The only thing you’re saying here is that you don’t recognize its value and you don’t want to pay for it. No, wait, you don’t want businesses —fully capable organizations who can pay—to pay for it. You should be ashamed. There’s nothing random about it. A tech business is finally realizing giving products away for free isn’t a business. What a surprise. > Now that they have the huge user base, they're in a good posit…

> The only thing you’re saying here is that you don’t recognize its value and you don’t want to pay for it. No, wait, you don’t want businesses—fully capable organizations who can pay—to pay for it.

No, I communicated my point clearly that I find it disappointing for the shift.

I understand that a business needs to be viable but I'm commenting on the fact that they probably wouldn't have the mass adoption that they have now if Docker Desktop had the licensing structure today that it had from the beginning.

The whole internet basically runs on Linux which is largely supported by monetary donations and companies making source code contributions so let's not forget that alternative altogether.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#399

Post by znpy » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

I've been blandly pushing for podman at work.

Maybe this time management will start listening.

Plus, frankly, podman works reliably well in rootless mode, no more messing up with docker in docker, you can be root in you container without needing pretty much any privileged resources.

And since podman 3.x you can use docker-compose just pointing it to the user rootless podman socket.

And podman can start act like a dumb kubernetes and start pods and deployment from the yaml definitions.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#400

Post by mleonhard » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

voxic11 wrote: post #396

bspammer wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that images are not content-addressed is very surprising to me. I just always assumed they were because… why wouldn’t they be? I bet a large proportion of other devs assumed the same.

They are if you use the digest rather than the id.

You can specify the digest of a base image when building a new image. You cannot specify the digest of a built image when starting a container.