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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#541

Post by munk-a »

jki275 wrote: post #517
saghm wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, support for removing Nixon from office among Republicans appeared rather rapidly, and there were still Republicans staunchly in support of him until the end https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/it-took-a-long-time-for...

Nixon had a whole lot of other things going against him.

Nixon also had a whole lot of things going for him, he was hardly an unpopular president and the watergate scandal is sort of ridiculous with hindsight because he won re-election by a wide margin. The 1968 election was close and he likely would have lost if not for the trainwreck that was Wallace, but in 1972 he absolutely trounced McGovern.

Nixon was a generally popular president and it took a long time for his support to start slipping. His famous line "People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook. I've earned everything I've got." wasn't nearly as in poor taste as it seems in hindsight.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#542

Post by alkonaut »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #88
pjc50 wrote: post #38

It's not torture if you can leave at any time. He wasn't being held in the embassy, he was hiding there.

Ah, the old “he was free to leave anytime” argument. No. He wasn’t. Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. It’s victim blaming. Would you say a victim of Stockholm Syndrome is “free to leave at any time”? No, because that’s a ridiculous argument. Would you say Snowden is “free to leave [Russia] at any time”? No! So why is it an acceptable argument w…

This argument seems a bit silly. The rescuing circumstance for the argument is that whatever legal process he would face in the US might not be described as predicatble or maybe not even just.

But in general, the arument is flawed. If I rob a bank and barricade myself in my basement when the police shows up I'm not being subjected to torture because I'll face jail for my bank robbery if I leave the basement. Not after one day nor after ten years.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#543

Post by rootusrootus »

shadowgovt wrote: post #413
asdernr wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah. Then get send over to US and A and killed. Checkmate

The saddest thing about Assange's story is that when one lives in the realm of the paranoid for too long, the paranoia eats them. The US and A isn't in the business of assassinating visible targets. There's plenty of people who believe they are, but there's plenty of evidence they aren't. If they were, Manning wouldn't still be breathing.

The US definitely wouldn't risk any blowback by killing someone as low value as Assange. What would be the point? Easier just to chuck him in jail forever, and the political consequences are minimal to nonexistent.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#544

Post by seirl »

jki275 wrote: post #521
Quekid5 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of your family is there. All your friends are there. All that you own is there. All that you've ever known is there. You may not know any other language than your native one. You: "Why don't you just move?" This really sounds like saying "Cheer up!" to a person suffering from depression. EDIT: Spelling

No, it doesn't. I know people from developing countries. I'm married to one. Universally, every single one of them wants to get the fuck out, and they do everything in their power to get out. That's reality in a developing country. The US is not in any way like a developing country. Comparing it to one is an act of such entitled privileged whining it's absurd.

I didn't say that it was a developing country, I listed, as the parent commenter said, "aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average".

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#545

Post by whamlastxmas »

dominotw wrote: post #508
whamlastxmas wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alleged victims never pressed for Assange to be charged for sexual assault.

> Assange was accused of rape by a woman and sexual assault by another one what does 'accused' mean here? I assumed accused = pressed charges. edit: oh i see wht you mean. thanks.

The women did not accuse him of rape. They described alleged sexual assault, wanted the police to contact him to ask him to take an STD test, and the police took it upon themselves to want Assange for questioning in regards to sexual assault.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#546

Post by sachdevap »

shadowgovt wrote: post #310
colejohnson66 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. So Snowden isn’t a whistleblower because he gave them to the Guardian?

There are two answers to that: technical (legal) and moral. Technical (legal): No, clearly not. There's a reason he's hiding from the US justice system in Russia. He didn't follow the legal process for whistleblowing (and he probably should not have). Moral: The major difference between Manning and Snowden's leaks is that Snowden read the documents he forwarded and only collected and forwarded enough to blow the whis…

Your world view is terribly idealistic from a govt perspective. We are in the midst of a whistle-blower leak right now where an army colonel no less is being threatened to the extent that the US military is looking to take that person to a secure location. This after having the US congress AND the army on his side.

Imagine being a contractor and having no established procedures to go to, and when you blow the whistle, they just bring the hammer on you. Have you read about what Katherine Gun went through for blowing the whistle on a completely illegitimate war where an ally - the US (not her own country) - was pressuring countries in the UN to join the war?

You speak in black and white for Snowden and Manning's morality, but refuse to acknowledge the downright terrible greys of the govts involved.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#547

Post by Quekid5 »

jki275 wrote: post #521
Quekid5 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of your family is there. All your friends are there. All that you own is there. All that you've ever known is there. You may not know any other language than your native one. You: "Why don't you just move?" This really sounds like saying "Cheer up!" to a person suffering from depression. EDIT: Spelling

No, it doesn't. I know people from developing countries. I'm married to one. Universally, every single one of them wants to get the fuck out, and they do everything in their power to get out. That's reality in a developing country. The US is not in any way like a developing country. Comparing it to one is an act of such entitled privileged whining it's absurd.

> No, it doesn't. I know people from developing countries. I'm married to one. Universally, every single one of them wants to get the fuck out, and they do everything in their power to get out.

> That's reality in a developing country.

> The US is not in any way like a developing country. Comparing it to one is an act of such entitled privileged whining it's absurd.

I think you just argued against your own point?

1) You're saying that people from developing countries are desperate to get out. (I have no issue with this claim.)

2) Then you say: the US is not like a developing country.

The post of yours that I responded to effectively says to US citizens "why don't you just move?".

I'll note that: Point 2 (as stated by you!) means that the entirety of point 1 is completely irrelevant if you want to argue against what I said.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#548

Post by pixelbash »

jki275 wrote: post #474
seirl wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the "few aspects" like the prison system, healthcare, inequality, corruption, homelessness rates, freedom of the press, air pollution, crime rates, discrimination, police violence, homicide rates, unemployment benefits, social nets...

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single pe…

I live in New Zealand with family in the UK. I have spent the last 10 years flying the other way around the planet instead of via LA because the airports are worse than places like Malaysia.

I can't speak to living in the USA but I have lived in Milawe and Fiji, and honestly being poor is definitely bad but some of the stuff happening in the US is a whole other kind of dystopian terrifying.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#549

Post by magduf »

whatshisface wrote: post #516
jki275 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single pe…

Some people believe in their country and would rather fix it than leave it. If your car gets a flat, do you change the tire or buy a new car?

If your car gets a flat every other day, the driver's seat is stuck in the reclined position, it's constantly trying to steer you off the road, and the heater doesn't work, then maybe it's time to give up on fixing it and buy a new car.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#550

Post by iamnothere »

ceejayoz wrote: post #225
iamnothere wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially since the original "victim" retracted the allegations. Sweden simply refused to drop the charges afterwards, apparently for political reasons.

That doesn't appear to be the case. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/julian-assan... "The woman who accused Julian Assange of rape has said she is 'shocked' by Sweden’s decision to drop the seven-year investigation."

This is curious, because I definitely remember someone recanting their allegations. It was a big deal. It's hard to find clear information on it now. Was there a second accuser maybe?

Edit: based on some other comments there may have been two accusers. In that case my original comment was misleading, thanks for the correction.

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