Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#151

Post by qubex » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

EthanHeilman wrote: post #106

pjc50 wrote: post #38

It's not torture if you can leave at any time. He wasn't being held in the embassy, he was hiding there.

I'm not weighing in on this particular example because I haven't looked at in sufficient depth. However I want to strongly push back on the argument that: something can't be torture or abuse because the person is physically able to leave. The absence of a locked door does not capture the full scope of coercion and psychological in many situations. This sort of excuse is often used by cults and domestic abusers to jus…

I concur with you on this. The availability of a theoretical ‘out’ does not automatically mean that the victim is consenting to the ongoing mistreatment. Often it is intrinsic that taking that ‘out’ has perceived costs that make it less preferable than enduring the experience the victim is being subjected to. This is in and of itself a source of great angst for the victim.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#152

Post by iamnothere » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

lovetox wrote: post #91

criley2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care if his voluntary embassy stay was "similar to a Nordic prison" because he was not made to stand trial and face justice for his crimes. Justice isn't "well I did a bad thing and locked myself in a comfy house with internet and takeout food for a few years". Could you even imagine? His "freedom of movement" is self-restricted by his fear that he will have to face justice for acting as an agent of Russian m…

> He got away with raping a woman completely. Why are you saying this like it's a undeniable fact?

Especially since the original "victim" retracted the allegations. Sweden simply refused to drop the charges afterwards, apparently for political reasons.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#153

Post by docdeek » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

Roark66 wrote: post #46

djsumdog wrote: post #9

So he still gets almost another full year in a UK jail. After that, where can he go? Let's just say he's somehow successful at avoiding US extradition (unlikely), he's not going to be able to stay in the UK (unless he has dual citizenship or can somehow claim dual citizenship through a relative). He'd have to request asylum from another European nation that he can safety get to without flying. Australia did little to…

If he is released from UK jail he can hop onto a ferry and go to mainland EU. There he could travel to anywhere within the Shengen zone. I'm not sure about western countries, but Poland(as well as other eastern countries I believe) will not extradite anyone anywhere unless the crime is also considered a crime here, there is no possibility of death penalty, and there is strong evidence submitted that makes a convictio…

> If he is released from UK jail he can hop onto a ferry and go to mainland EU. There he could travel to anywhere within the Shengen zone.

That relies on his Australian passport being valid and not being cancelled by a US-friendly Australian government - the relevant Minister has the right to cancel a passport if the person is subejct to a foreign arrest warrant. [1] It would likely also rely on the EU member state being convinced that Assange was only visiting the EU for 90 days and had the intention to leave, thus qualifying for the Schenghen Visa Waiver for Australians. The border officers in France (or wherever the ferry lands) can reject him at the border before he has a chance to travel elsewhere if they aren’t convinced he is legit.

[1]: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2012C00135

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#154

Post by maze-le » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #134

k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. It's something, but i'm not sure I agree with calling that torture.

"free country"... oxymoron of the century by now...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#155

Post by qubex » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #97

k1m wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Melzer was accompanied during his prison visit on 9 May by two medical experts specialised in examining potential victims of torture and other ill-treatment." Are you saying we should take your word over theirs?

On 9 May, Assange had only been in jail for about a month. The expert claims the abuse predates that ("for a period of several years") which implies it started in the Ecuadorian embassy where he had been staying of his own accord.

He couldn’t really leave the Ecuadorian Embassy given that he was afraid of being arrested and eventually being extradited back to the U.S.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#156

Post by claudiawerner » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

BigJ1211 wrote: post #89

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"didn't really want to participate" is basically the definition of sexual assault.

If we go by that definition then everytime your partner is horny and you're not, but you have sex with them regardless you're "sexually assaulted". As you didn't really want to participate.

That's rubbish; you may not be in the mood, but you still consent to it - wanting to do something isn't the same as being horny. The point isn't about being horny, it's if you want to do it - being aroused is a factor you're introducing.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#157

Post by ptaipale » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

Roark66 wrote: post #46

djsumdog wrote: post #9

So he still gets almost another full year in a UK jail. After that, where can he go? Let's just say he's somehow successful at avoiding US extradition (unlikely), he's not going to be able to stay in the UK (unless he has dual citizenship or can somehow claim dual citizenship through a relative). He'd have to request asylum from another European nation that he can safety get to without flying. Australia did little to…

If he is released from UK jail he can hop onto a ferry and go to mainland EU. There he could travel to anywhere within the Shengen zone. I'm not sure about western countries, but Poland(as well as other eastern countries I believe) will not extradite anyone anywhere unless the crime is also considered a crime here, there is no possibility of death penalty, and there is strong evidence submitted that makes a convictio…

In practice, all EU countries have the dual criminality requirement in their legislation, like the one you mention for Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_criminality

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#158

Post by buboard » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

plesner wrote: post #95

jaimex2 wrote: post #50

Title should really be 'US takes hand out of Swedish puppet now that its free to extradite Assange' The take away here is stay anonymous when whistle blowing or handling leaks. Don't talk to anyone, don't say anything just take a USB stick to an Internet cafe while disguised and host a torrent. Then email the press the magnet link using a throw away email service.

It's possible to be both unfairly targeted by a superpower and commit sexual assault, one doesn't cancel out the other. I'm not saying he did, I don't know how any of us could know. You seem quite confident he didn't though, I'm curious what you base that on.

the charges were of 'rape' (not sexual assault), as it is defined in sweden. I m pretty sure these charges don't qualify as rape in most other countries: https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/4/12/18306901/julian-ass...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#159

Post by ttul » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #124

arrrg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that line of thinking doesn’t make sense to me … Just for the sake of argument, say you are a bank robber who successfully barricaded yourself somewhere (really uncomfortable) where police cannot reach you. You are then free to leave at any time, but would be arrested as soon as you did. Would you really argue that police would have to drop the case to avoid torturing you? Your line of thinking seems to presuppos…

I’m not arguing that the case is unjust. I’m refuting the argument that he was free to leave at any time. I see where the two cross, so I’ll argue the former here: He’s wanted because he embarrassed the United States government. Espionage laws are a horrible attack on free speech and freedom of the press and I’m appalled the Supreme Court previously ruled they’re constitutional.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is.

Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#160

Post by Bostonian » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #102

By the way, Chelsea Manning (the actual leaker) has been in jail for just over 6 months - again - for refusing to testify in the Assange extradition case. If you're so inclined, send something to her legal defense fund: https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/chelsea-manning-needs-...

Chelsea Manning was sentenced to 35 years, but her sentence was commuted by Obama in part because she was transgender. She deserves to be in prison.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/chelsea-manning-sent... President Barack Obama on Tuesday overruled his secretary of defense to commute the sentence of former Army soldier Chelsea Manning, who was convicted of stealing and disseminating 750,000 pages of documents and videos to WikiLeaks.

The decision -- which a senior defense official told CNN was made over the objections of Secretary of Defense Ash Carter -- immediately touched off a controversy in the closing days of the Obama administration. A former intelligence official described being "shocked" to learn of Obama's decision, adding that the "entire intelligence community is deflated by this inexplicable use of executive power." The official said the move was "deeply hypocritical given Obama's denunciation of WikiLeaks' role in the hacking of the (Democratic National Committee)."